Hmm don't think any of my loaded mods does that. Tried narrowing it down one by one but didn't get anywhere since I can't always trigger the random auto-move.

Been playing a bit and I think I need advice on settings to make hardcoe mode more hardcoe. o.o I was sneaking around in one of those caves in heavy armour, carrying a torch and brandishing my sword. Came upon two bandits chatting, third one sleeping on a bedroll. Snuck right up between the chatting pair and killed one of them. The other one didn't bat an eye and just turned and walk away so I backstabbed him too. Finally dispatched the still sleeping guy. Don't think that's quite right. :tongue: My sneak, heavy armour and armorer skills are all at 100.

Okay. The vampire vs. adventurer might have just been stupid AI - vampire had no light source, but was right next to the adventurer, who had a torch. I'll have to try it myself with a torch and see what happens.


Heavy Armor 100 means that your armor is zero encumbrance - that likely has an effect on your Sneak skill. And, of course, Sneak 100... bandits, from what I've seen, have a very low Sneak. I really wish there were a Perception skill, or something similar. Maybe the spotter's check should be based on the higher of Intelligence or Sneak?

Indeed. With Sneak Penalties, I'd still get detected. Think it's setup so that within certain distance and in line-of-sight, you'd get detected no matter what. I was right under their nose and waving a torch in their face, makes sense to see me.

I run JOG's Stealth Overhaul, SM Combat Hide, Dukes Near miss, and dead bodys mods, DD Proximity sneak penalties, and Sniper Sneak Skill-up.

I see that you have already incorporated features of some of these into your mod already. Dukes mods don't modify the players sneak skill, that I am aware of, so, those shouldn't be a problem, proximity does, and will be. Stealth overhaul makes changes to sneak attack bonuses, and heaven only knows what else..... it also adds some features that I just don't use. (gear quick keys for instance.....)

I really hated the NPC's ability to lock on to me like a flipping magnet, and follow me no matter how far I got away from them, and how many turns I took. So, being able to attack, run, hide again, is a must. Granted, the NPC should get a decreasing over time bonus to continue detecting you, based on the standard formulas you are using. (your modified formula's) Are you already doing so?

As for companions..... that one is tough. Just because someone detects that ONE person is there, doesn't necessarily imply that there is more than one.... though, I could see it giving a bit of a bonus, as the NPC would become "suspicious", and therefore at a heightened state of awareness. Perhaps a minor bonus to detect additional folks, right up until the NPC is actively engaged in combat?

I didn't replicate the insta-detect in Sneak Penalties, because I think there are some situations where they shouldn't apply.

However, waving a torch at someone and them ignoring you is NOT what I intended. It may be because their sneak skill is getting capped at 100, so even with all of the bonuses they are getting, your skills are so high and your penalties are so low, you are winning.

I'll fix it. Most likely there will be a torch / proximity factor that will be similar to a torch / invisibility nerfer. If you are carrying a torch and you are within 20 feet (400 units), regardless of lighting conditions, and if you are in Line Of Sight, chameleon or not, you will be detected.

Sound good?

I would think if you were carrying a torch/lantern/light spell of ANY nature, sneaking would be darn near impossible. You can see a torch from a LONG ways off. A LOT further than the person holding the torch can see, and, a moving torch is a dead giveaway that someone is holding it.......

I can see it now..... Rats with light spells cast on them to be used as decoy's.......

I have just seen this project.
I have a feature request (don't know if you have been asked for before):

In vanilla you can repair your armor in sneak mod without been detected by enemies which is completely senseless.
Can you introduce proximity sneak penalities for repairing gears in future releases?

Thanks for this work.

Yes, sounds like a good plan. ^_^ I did like the insta-detect in Sneak Penalties, it meant I'd still have to be careful no matter how high my skills were. Not a good idea to change the penalties settings in the ini then? Not sure how it'll play with a new char.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0UzdYRnMtY, yes that'd be interesting. o.o

Using settings that alter Marksman skill points gain via sneak attacks or proximity sneaking is generally not a good idea because some players use others mods to controle their skills progress (levelling, progress mods); others like me play Oblivion with a static level (no leveling, no skill usage, no free skill boosts).

You can try increasing the light penalty multiplier. The settings I put as the default were my best guess. I tried squaring the light penalty, but that didn't work so good.

The other main issue is the cap on the Sneak skill bonus for the detector unless you are using the AV Uncapper plugin.

But I think I might be able to bypass the entire process altogether. I'll have to do some tinkering. But I'm still swamped at the moment, so it's probably gonna be at least a week before I can focus on it unfortunately.

Sounds good to me.


Yeah... yesterday, I saw an adventurer in a dungeon run by me while carrying a torch. The odd thing was, he was invisible (or chameleon'ed, I couldn't tell), so all I saw was a torch speeding past. Definitely made me pause and take a second look.

Just a friendly bump here to see how things are going.

I finished my taxes (finally), and this weekend I'm going to try to tackle some of the issues that have been brought up. Hopefully I'll have something by Sunday evening, Monday at the latest.

Hi. not to be pushy or anything, but, any news here?

SDR does not alter Marksman skill point gain at all, it bumps up your Sneak skill point gain if you successfully do a sneak attack with a distance weapon and remain undetected. If you think this is too much of a bonus, you can turn the option off in the .ini without affecting any of the other settings.

That's a great idea. I'd also like to introduce penalties for switching armor around and changing weapons, that sort of thing. However, this a really complicated request to fulfill with the tools / knowledge I have for this version. However, I will add it to the wish list for v. 2.0.

Good News!

The next release will include the following:

- I've fixed the auto-move toggle problem. Permanently I think.
- I've also tweaked how holding a torch or having a light spell cast on the player affects their being detected. It is now very unpleasant to hold a torch, no matter how good your sneak skill is or how high your chameleon level is.
- There is a similar effect if you have a light spell cast on you, only it's about half as bad. But still nasty enough that you don't want to be in line of sight or in close range if you have a light spell cast on you.

The next release will also (hopefully) include the following:
- I am also looking into applying sound penalties to NPCs for the gear that they wear. Meaning that if they are wearing a lot of gear and moving around, the noise that they make when they move will reduce their ability to hear you!
- I am also working on updating the manual and flushing the rest of it out.

I know I said I was going to release a new version yesterday, but this is taking longer than I thought. I will make an official announcement when it is up and running.

Cheers!

Saebel

Coolness, thank You.

I tried looking at KSE, but that mod is insanely complicated. At least ten times more complicated than mine will ever be. And all the notes are in Russian. I tried hunting down the setting, but just couldn't find it.

I tested silence effects in my game with just basic Oblivion and SDR running, and I was able to cast spells after the silence spell expired. So I am sorry to say that there is really nothing I can do. And in all honesty, it may not even have anything to do with my mod whatsoever.

The only other thing I can think of is that there is a conflict between OBSE elys pluggy and OBSE av uncapper. Although I am not aware of any at this time.

I am sorry that I could not be of more help.

New version 1.03 beta is up!

Decided to hold off on applying sound penalties to NPCs for the gear that they wear for a future version. I felt that the auto-move fix, torch/lighting effects fix and completed manual were worth posting an update now. I'll take a look at the other stuff later.

I think from this point forward the mod should be fairly stable. Most likely the next release will be the official first release, depending on how this one performs.

Please feel free to overload me with bug reports and suggestions.

AND IF YOU HAVEN'T VOTED FOR IT YET, WHY NOT?

:thumbsup:

P.S. Uber thanks to all you victims ... er volunteers who were willing to try this out!

Thanks. Your mod is the most logical sneaking/hiding mod I've tried - only messed around with it for a bit, but I will check out the new version soon.

Does this give you the ability to do something like this?:

1.) A guard sees you while sneaking.

2.) He pursues you but you turn a corner and hide in the dark.

3.) Guard turns the corner but figures you've escaped because he can't find you.

So basically, is it possible to reenter sneak mode after being out of the line of sight of the person pursuing you?

No it does not. It only affects everything leading up to the detection event. There are other mods that effect what happens afterwards.

The way the AI works is that after you attack someone, in addition to all the bonuses they have to see you, they only lose track of you if the detection level drops below -50. On top of that, depending on how aggressive they are, just because they lose sight of you doesn't mean they will stop hunting you. For example, if you shoot someone with a bow at long range, and you are at -50 or lower, the person may come over to your area to find you. As they come closer, they have a better chance to detect you, and if they get too close, the detection level will most likely rise to above -50 and they will spot you. The idea is that they will scour the area looking for the person who just shot them. This "hunting" period only lasts for a certain amount of time, but can be for a minute or two I've noticed.

I tested this out in a bandit cave with interesting results. Shooting bandit bowmen at a distance was a piece of cake because they prefer distance attacks, and so rarely come running over to where the attack was (although they would still do that some times). Attacking other bandits always asked for trouble. I pretty much could only get one shot off, and they would chase me down. Because SDR is more realistic in terms of them being able to see you, it is REALLY hard to shake someone off now. You pretty much need to plan as follows:
1. Figure out your perfect hiding spot
2. Figure out a totally different attack spot
3. Attack from spot 2, immediately run to spot 1 if they can't detect you (and it better be fairly far from spot 2)
4. Cross your fingers.

However, there have been enough requests along these lines that I am considering including the "detection minimum" variables in the next release, and maybe reducing them down a bit to help compensate a little for all the other adjustments.

I use SM Combat hide as well..... which alters the re-detection chances..... might want to have a look at that, and maybe implement something similar?

In some of these huge dungeons, I found it rather odd that I could RUN to the other side of some huge place, but, the NPC in question would still have a radar-lock on me, even though he was a great distance away, in another room.......

Yeah, I didn't mind them hunting me, but I ran into the "lock" on target issue as well. One thing I was thinking was a diminishing bonus to detect you after you struck them, depending on whether they have "lost sight" of you. I'll look at SM Combat Hide in greater detail. If there is some good stuff, I'll ask for permission to incorporate some of it. Otherwise, I may have to come up with something custom.

On a side note, the next version will have the tokens as side-weapons instead of rings. One of the players brought up that NPC were equiping the tokens! (although everything I read implied that wouldn't happen).