yeah i kind of hate this argument.....when you say you can choose NOT to do something given to you....kind of ridiculous and destroys the feel of the game...at least for me.

like i said before, when you know you can get so many of these much of the weight of the decisions you make at the start of the game is taken away completely, sort of ruining the feel that the things you do ingame actually have importance/consequence...




That makes it even worse....then thats not a jack of all trades, thats a godmode character, terrible....worse than i originally thought, thanks lol.

You still are not going to get all of the perks,. You still will not be able to be the greatest at everything. And You can still CHOOSE to be great at only one thing. If anything, this expansion simply allows a person to fully excell in one Archetype or another. With a maximum of 50 out of nearly 300 perks, you could only manage to fill a sixth of the perk trees. Which meant you might be a Master Archmage, unable to have significant perks in all the schools of Magic. You might be a master of armed combat, with none of the perks in half of the forms of melee battle. Etc. Etc. Etc. This expansion still doesn't allow you to master EVERY skill, it just allows you to actually be a total master of at least one pure Archetype.

You can still specialize your character to be as tailored to one skill set as you want. You still have that OPTION.

There is, however, a difference between being ALLOWED to make a very specialized character who excells in a limited number of skills, versus being FORCED to make a very specialized character who can ONLY specialize in a few skills. You remain able to roleplay your character in virtually any way you like. . . as does everyone else. The fact that some people cannot resist the lure of being allpowerful, and cannot stick to a pure character of their roleplaying ideal because they cannot say NO to being able to do everything, is nobody's fault but their own. The player who wants a highly restricted build should not be able to veto the rights of a player who wants an unrestricted build, just because the afore mentioned player fears that they won't stick to their restricted ideal, if the restrictions are not forcefully imposed by the system.

You are proposing that the game have ever greater power to dictacte how versatile and powerful a character can be. You may like that. Many other people don't.

As to restrictions being the reason you like Elder Scrolls games so much. . . that seems an odd thing to say, considering the fact that the previous games allowed a far greater ability to master all skillsets and be the greatest living Everything, than Skyrim seems to allow for.

Of all the recent news about Skyrim, this revelation bothers me the least. I would go so far as to say it makes me glad. Maxing out the perks in all the spellschools might almost come somewhat close to halfway halfass making up for the loss of spellmaking.

the bolded part deserves this: :thumbsup:

Holy crap again i hate this reply so much rofl.....must not have read the post. Say that we're able to reset all our perks at given times throughout the game....that would destroy the whole feeling of importance/weight of decision for me....which i thought was a large part of the game, and its a part that i really enjoyed.

Or do you not have an opinion of your own? your only reply is dont like it dont use it? id like to respond to you if you could at least tell me how you feel about my concerns, but if you cant its fine.

edit: back in a few hrs will reply then

Am I the only that doesn't worry about this stuff and just will play the game without concerns and enjoy it?

Okay number 1 - i don't recall it ever being confirmed that you would be able to reset your perks halfway through the game, if you have evidence to the contrary please post a link. Number 2 - the "don't like it, don't use it" argument is COMPLETELY valid! surely making a feature optional is the best way to do it, that way those who enjoy using it can and those who don't like it don't have to use it, That way everyone is happy. :teehee:

Holy crap I hate this reply so much rofl TOO...because you just did the EXACT SAME THING- I asked you why you NEED to use them all when you don't have to and your response is this?? "What if I can reset, that takes away all the importance"

THEN DON'T RESET. O. M. G.

As someone much more eloquent than I just posted, don't take away options from other players just because you have no willpower to RP your character without restrictions imposed on you by the system itself.

Thanks. Glad to be of service. I just grow weary of people essentially saying that, because they don't like having too much freedom, everyone else's freedoms should be curtailed and infringed upon.

You almost want to ask if they also would like to create laws banning Omnivores, Bisixuals, and Bretons, and all books with Half-Elf characters like Elrond. lol.

"Look, you can eat meat, or you can eat vegetables, but you cannot just eat everything you freakin glutton! You can like boys, or you can like girls, but you can't like to six up everything, you foul pervert. You can be a human, or you can be an Elf. . . . but a HALF-ELF with human street cred, and Elven long life and mystic awesomeness?! No! No! That just isn't fair to whole humans and full blooded Elves everywhere!"

Lol.

You know, if you max out the skills associated with the character concept you want to play and don't want to branch into any new fields, you can always decide it's time for another playthrough and start over, happy that there is plenty of content that you never played the first time. Or, you can keep playing that character and simply not use skills your character wouldn't use and accept that fact that your concept character has reached his level cap. Only you can make godmode characters, they aren't hard coded into the game.

I know that I'll never max out a character because I won't bother with pickpocketing, alchemy, two-handed weapons and probably several other skills that don't interest me.

Nope, i'm in the same boat as you.

What a whiny man child.

Buy a real sword and go running in rural Alaska or Greenland. Problem solved.

You can only get a third, and don't forget that's with your character completely maxed out on exp. We don't know how much that entails, but I doubt level 70 will be an easy thing to achieve.

I'm not overly alarmed, though I do hope they keep in mind that the drawback of being a jack of all trades, is being a master of none.

You have valid points, but remember a game can't be perfect. None of the other Elder Scrolls games were perfect, but they were still awesome. Your gonna like it when you play it. Nothin to worry about.

Some of the changes concern me, like the omission of h2h and no character viewer in the inv screen but other than that, I am INCREDIBLY hyped for this game.

I really don`t understand what the problem is. Pls read AinurOlorin`s post.
In Morrowind it is much easier to create a godmode character than the case will be in Skyrim. If anything you must be more specialized in Skyrim to get all the perks of one tree
Actually many people who plays Elder Scrolls WANT to make a godmode character, I for once have done it sometimes.
You should be glad that Skyrims limits that possibility

I understand your concerns and you have every right to be upset and to [censored] about it. But try playing the game first before you say you don't like it. Who knows maybe you'll love it. And if you don't by all means complain about it to your hearts content.

Happily in the same boat as you two

This complaint doesn't make any sense.

So getting only the third of the perks, and even that by maxing out all of your skills, a feat that you wouldn't do without a purpose of powerleveling, is too much?
How?
More than half of the perks will remain unchecked!
Not to mention, there were no restrictions like this before, so if this is worse than the games before, then I have no clue how.

Then again, the same is with the whole "ruined exploration", due to arrows. They don't ruin exploration any more than the automatically updated maps do, that was present ever since Arena...

If they can't handle the Tree they shouldn't be making RPG. I'm inclined to believe most of you don't know RPG systems and what each individual one does.

Skyrim uses a Skill Tree system. Not a Perk system. Their both vastly different. For a rundown look back in my post history as I've detailed it numerous times since January.

75 perks, 220 individual perks, ~280+ perk choices when accounting for leveled perks. It's less than 1/3.

Pure Genius.

This sounds fine to me.

Here is my response to your concerns:

Perks: As many have said already, you can only max out at a 3rd of the available perks. As many have said, there are 3 archetypes (Warrior, Mage, Thief), thus you can max out a 3rd of the perks. Also... in order to actually MAX out your perks, you are going to have to put so much time and effort into just ONE character. Enough effort that most players will probably never attain on one playthrough.

My longest playthrough in Oblivion is at approx. 100 hours and I am only at level 37. If we put that in Skyrim terms, I would need another 33 levels to max out my level and max out my perks.

*Now, I do understand, you can't accurately use Oblivion terms to judge Skyrim, because it's been stated already that leveling is intended to happen faster in Skyrim than it did even in Oblivion, but I can imagine, considering past Elder Scrolls games, that it's still gonna take more than 100 hours to max out your character.

Then, there's the fact that like others have said, if you begin to spread yourself thin, the more skills you level up, the slower your character will level up, the slower you gain perks.

Exploration: Eh, I'm not a huge fan of the compass in Oblivion and Fallout 3 terms, but I don't understand the utter hatred for it either. If you still want to find lost ruins and dungeons out in the middle of nowhere, you STILL have to go out into the middle of nowhere to find it. I can tell you there are probably dozens of dungeons and locations I've never found in Oblivion because I haven't put forth the exploration to find them. I had created a new test character the other night, and just ran in a random direction, and found a whole load of dungeons and locations I never knew even existed. The same can be said of my main character which is my longest Oblivion playthrough, where I am still finding locations I never knew existed, all because now I am actually going and exploring to find them. These things don't just automatically appear on your map that they are there. You still have to explore to the general location of the dungeon or site to find it. I certainly don't have a problem with a quest marker telling you where to go to find a location... as someone else said, it's very feasible that the quest giver would merely mark it on your map, showing you where to go anyways (this happened in Morrowind as well, locations would be marked on your map so you'd know where to go). The only time I didn't really like it was when the quest would tell you where to find a specific person, and with no knowledge I would know to find that person in just this room in this specific inn, or tavern, or shop. But at the same time, with Radiant AI the way it is, and NPC's constantly in different places, or even different towns, it'd be impossible for an NPC to tell you where you need to go to find the person. It would svck rather hard if the NPC told you "this person can be found in either Chorral or Anvil, as he travels between the 2 towns", and you go in one town, only for him to be in the other town, so you travel all the way to the other town, only to find that he just left back to Chorral... Quest markers might be too much of a convenience sometimes, but it's hardly some kind of "hand holding" or "dumbing down".

3D Map: Even the maps of Oblivion and Morrowind showed you general terrain features. This is not new. It is not a "dumbing down", or any kind of removal of shock and surprise.

I do agree with you hoping that it is not possible to rise through the ranks of guilds without practicing the skills of said guild. If I want to rise through the ranks of the Mage's Guild, I should be a practicing mage. If I want to rise through the Thieves Guild, I should actually have experience in sneaking around and stealing things.

Thank you. And, to the rest, ^This. Harrv's complaint, aside from being a highly subjective one, is also highly obtrusive. If the game were structured to Harvv's ideal, then people who actually like mastering multiple skills, genius mode/legendary mode/ or godmode type characters, if you will (and polls suggest that HUGE numbers of people do indeed enjoy playing that way) would be complaining about how extremely limiting the game is. . . and they would actually have a much stronger argument than Harvv's, because while he is complaining about an OPTIONAL play choice, they would be protesting an actual MANDATORY/FORCED restriction, which they would have no way to get around, excepting mods or possible cheats.