First off, compliments on a great http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=5244. It can't be easy ensuring a compilation mod has no problems/conflicts. That being said, I'm sure there is a simple solution I'm overlooking, but my problem is this:

1- Using only the New Suran Extended 1.5 esp, the Archery store merchants have only a few items each for sale (but all the weapons and other items are still visible and 'stealable' behind the counter)

2- Using both New Suran Extended 1.5 esp and Suran Archery Tradehouse v3.0_NSE esp, all items are available for Barter... but the merchants are doubled.


Again, there's gotta be something simple I'm missing, but I'm at a loss... Thanks in advance for any input

When you installed the addon plugin, did you add it to a preexisting save file,
in which you were already playing?

You might have accidentally doubled your references.

Try starting a new game with both plugins installed.

If this fixes your problem, then you had doubled references.

I've heard of a program that can clean your savefiles, so you can fix this
without having to start over, but I forget what it's called.
(Once I have started a new game, I will have chosen all my mods beforehand,
and won't change them for the rest of that session, so I never really need to clean my saves.)

No, this was from a completely new game. I'm like you; I want to get all my mods set before starting, so I'm testing them out first.

From the readme:

* Suran Archery Tradehouse - "Suran Achery Store_v3.0 NSE.esp"
This Plug-in provides compatability for New Suran Extended, Suran Underworld & Suran Archery Tradehouse. Places the trade house beside the silt strider port. Resources (textures, meshes, icons) are not included. Set up Suran Achery Store_v3.0 & replace .esp with this one.

I took this to mean I should install the original Suran Archery store mod (since the resources are not included), and use the NSE compatible mod in its' place, in conjunction with New Suran Extended. What is confusing is that the Archery store will still appear without the compatibility mod, just with very limited/no store inventory, but with the merchants in place. Using both NSE and the compatibility mod produces the doubling effect.

I used Wrye Mash to merge lists- could that be the culprit? EDIT: Nope- doubling occurs whether I merge lists or not.

Hmm, I think I've just figured it out.
This reminds me of a problem I had with my mod Wizard's Rest.

When I made v2.0 of my mod, I changed the activators for my alchemy sorter to a pair of books,
as part of an addon. After loading the plugin, the sorter activators would become doubled, and suddenly
I'd have two sets of activators stuck inside each other. (Looking weird too, since I also resized them in the addon.)

The solution was to change the original plugin, completely removing the alchemy sorter from it,
and remaking the sorter as part of the addon. This completely fixed the doubling issue.

You might want to try removing the merchants themselves from the addon.
The problem may be that both New Suran Extended and the addon are adding the NPC's,
so they are not actually "Doubled", but rather the game is being told that two sets of them are supposed
to be there, like all of the game's identical guards.

Do you have a copy of TESAME? If you don't, you can get it from Planet Elder Scrolls.
Using TESAME, open the addon plugin, search the list for the merchants, and delete them.
(Right click on the merchants, then press DELETE on your keyboard.)

Save the plugin, then try the new "clean" version you've just made, instead of the old one.

Are you using the 1.5.2 patch which combines the seperate plug-in into the main file? NSE needs a bit of work that I've been neglecting.

Yes, and that is the reason for the conflict, I think. In NSE by itself, the archery store, with all the inventory, is there- just that when talking to the merchants, they have nothing for sale ! (You can, of course, liberate their stock...)

Using the compatibility patch along with NSE introduces doubling, but the merchants and their twins are more than happy to barter with you...

Success!! (.. maybe..)

Took me a while, but I think it's working... Tried TESAME, removed the NPC's, but incredibly, was still getting doubling. Cleaned both mods with TESTOOL, tried again, still doubling (note- TESTOOL found a lot of errors in both files). Merged both cleaned mods with TESAME- no doubling, but no merchant inventory...

Finally- opened up the Construction Set, loaded up both original mods (unmodified, uncleaned) and combined them (again- lots of dialog errors when loading them up).
Cleaned the resulting merged ESP with TESTOOL... well, this seems to have worked.

Playtested it a few times, doesn't seem to be any obvious errors. Nicholiathan, you want to try this out and see what you get?

@Gaius: Logically, TESAME should have worked, but I have no idea why doubling was still occuring

Hmm, that's very strange... it really should have worked.
Oh well, if you get this properly fixed, you could post it to PES.
I'm sure alot of people would like it.

Sure thing, although I would like for Nicholiathan to take a look at it first, since it is his project. Not sure if my slash-and-merge editing removed anything vital, but I can't find anything wrong, other than a few minor graphical glitches which were present anyway.

Yeah, the TESAME edits should have worked, I'm still at a loss as to why... but since I've only been modding for two days, I can blame ignorance... This time only, though.

I've been meaning to fix some problems with this mod for a while now I'll look into it over the weekend

Cool. I can understand the idea behind having the main Suran ESP, and having the option of adding the Archery Shop (and the Farmer's Mod too- looks interesting)
But it seems like the most of the framework is already in place, so hey, why not go ahead and merge 'em all together...


On another note, I loaded up a couple of other mods, to see how much conflict there would be... The http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=1281 is almost completely buried, but http://tommyshideout.net/programs/acsappoldro/ almost fits in... wondering if you thought about adding those in...

Not that I'm thinking about another Balmora Expanded... or am I?

Ah, found the reason why the mechants were sticking around- from the TESAME readme:

"By removing items in the list you're NOT removing them from the mod completely.
A "removed" NPC can still be seen in the game. You're only making sure that the
original data (in this case, NPC) are not being changed by your mod.
The cells and their content stay intact. Unless you.. hehe, remove a cell."

Merging them with the CS seems to have worked, but there seems to be some dialog problems with some NPC's - they have no topics.

Oh well, keep experimenting...

I've only just got over the flu and so was unable to get much done. You can fix the ownership issue in the CS quite easily.

1) copy the file date for NSE to notepad for later use
2) open NSE & find the archery store interior in the cell list
3) click on the merchant & make note of his id (lower left corner of the CS)
4) zoom out then click and drag a box around everything in the cell
5) double click on anything the player could pick up
6) in the reference data check the extra data box
7) chose the merchant's id from the owner drop down list & click "apply to selection"
8) click the x button to close the pop up window - do not click save
9) save the mod
10) use wrye mash to redate the file back to it's original date and repair all on your save game.

Hope you're feeling better, Nicholiathan.

Figured out what the problem was- the main NSE mod did NOT have inventory crates present in the store- only the weapons on the desk/wall. The Suran Archery mod had the crates. Merging the two in the CS (with the NSE mod active), and then cleaning the mod with TESPCD and TESTOOL resulted in everything where it's supposed to be- merchants have inventory AND dialogue intact.

Moving on to the Farmer's mod next...

note- used the default NSE mod (no COM, no Balanced)

To which Suran Archery plugin did you refer to? The one WizBang created or the one packaged in NSE? I need to fix up this thing too!

Yeah, you'll need the http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=2093 mod as well. Took me a while to figure that out.

The 1.52 patch doesn't have the data files, just the .ESP- use that one instead of the ESP from the original Suran Archery mod.

I just opened Balanced COM NSE.esp with TESCS and went to Suran, Archery Tradehouse cell and found so many missng meshes, looks like I need the resources found on the original Suran Archery Tradehouse too, right? Note that I don't want Suran Archery Tradehouse itself, I just want all those missing meshes fixed.

Yep. I made a folder and put NSE, Suran Archery Tradehouse, and the 1.52 patch in, and repackaged it so I can install it with MASH or MPM.

But you're right, you will need all the meshes, textures, etc. from the Suran Archery Tradehouse mod. It should say on PES that the Archery Tradehouse is required if you want to use the compatibility patch.

Last question, Do I need to merge main NSE AND the original Suran Archer Tradehouse(the one made by WizBang) to fix the issue too? I just realized that the main NSE files is missing crate reference too(I'm using Balanced COM version by the way)

No. Use "Suran Achery Store_v3.0 NSE.esp" (the one included in the 1.52 patch). Wizbang's version has the Tradehouse in a different location.


Set Balanced COM as the 'Active' file in the CS when you merge. Clean with TESPCD/TESTOOL after you merge and give it a shot. That should work....

^But when I do that, I got 2 missing errors instead:

Unable to find Region 'Suran Region' in Load for Cell 'Suran Mountain Region'.
Unable to find Region 'Suran Region' in Load for Cell 'Suran'.

Yet if I merge main Balanced NSE COM with the original Suran Archery Tradehouse, it loads fine.

I don't know what to do now

Hmm.. try this method then:

1. Use TESPCD, load Balance NSE COM and Suran Achery Store_v3.0 NSE.esp, and run the cleaner (click the red arrow)

2. Got to the 'Operations' tab and click 'Auto Delete Unclean'

3. Merge them in the CS (Balanced NSE COM active)

4. Run the merged file thru TESPCD cleaner, auto delete-clean the leftover stuff



TESPCD should remove those errors you mentioned. I don't know what specifically is different from the COM ESP and the regular NSE- when Nicoliathan swings back by here, maybe he can provide us with some more tips.

There is virtually no difference between the CoM and regular versions. In the CoM version there is a playground, some childern and toys added. These use resources provided by CoM but have never been updated to the new version of CoM. From the looks here I'll have to move this up to the top of my priority list. It appears there may be more work than I'd initially anticipated.

Can send you the merged .ESP I've been working on if you want to take a look at it

May I dare a tiny request? :bowdown:
The changes in the bridge area do not play well with Cyrano's Traveling Merchants mod. Should some compatibility solution be devised, NSE would win a handful of grateful users.