[Luis Reyma]

Hey, apart of surviving in the wasteland is learning to conquer your fears and make hard decisions. And besides, everyone's gotta sleep eventually!

[joseluis perez]

if the bed save thing goes through, that means I can't quicksave right before a speechcheck anymore

[Evaa]

Well, got even worse news, think of the new dlc. It will be interesting to see how well dialogue matches up. Don't imagine folks will be to happy if they pick a reply that they really didn't want before sleeping. Actually though, it might be a tad amusing, since I will be forcing saves via console

[Natalie Harvey]

As the bolded part of the first quote:"Probably" isn't certainty. In either event, my point still stands i'm more interested in dlc atm than the mods which will probably be shakey for several months on consoles.

[carly mcdonough]

I wish they would go back to the percentage than. Because, it's ridiculous to have such a high Charisma and fail at a yellow. I don't want a Chance. I want a hard Percentage.

[FABIAN RUIZ]

dont like the save thing because it will mean i cant play the game for aslong as i want instead i have to play it till i get to a bed

if im playing and have to stop for any reason well cant just save like normal instead lose all play

have always hated games with "save points" and now that i have so many damn [censored] advlt commitments i avoid them

like many of others im sure there has been many times where ive started a quest or dungeon found it much longer/bigger than i thought and really needed to get to bed, no problem just save finish it later, with this i will have to keep going or lose all play

many times where ive had to stop cause baby/family/friends etc

doesnt matter just save, with this its going to be a nightmare

luckily my xbox is pretty damn stable, ive only had one crash so far. but for others on PC or with less stable Xbox Ones/ps4s this is going to be insane

ammo weight too, well im not against that but with the utterly ridiculous weights of the guns is it needed?

really hope they redo the gun weights to more appropriate weights then this will be alot better

[Adam]

There is no question the sleep saves will be limiting, but I have been noticing the last few days I have been playing since I first heard about this, that there are beds everywhere.

I don't think there's a 500 x 500 virtual foot section that doesn't have a bed in it, and there are a lot of beds in the interiors as well.

It might just be a sleeping bag, it might not give you a restful bonus, but there are mattresses all over the place.

Though it's not a feature I'm dying to have, it's not like I haven't just forgotten to save before and had to play through a good amount of stuff because I forgot to save and I wasn't zoning or looking at my pipboy lone enough to save for me.

I understand wanting to have it easy, so you don't have to have a 5 to 10 minute buffer ever game session to travel to a save spot, but this isn't the vanilla game, this is hardcoe Survival mode.

[Monika Fiolek]

I'm sorry to just jump in here guys, haven't read a damned thing, I've just been going over a lot of stuff lately, formulating ideas and something crystallized for me, had to write it down.

* I also know that this likely goes beyond the scope of what this forum is intended for (really i'm talking about a huge mod like Project Nevada for FNV... but one that could be achieved by bethesda easier than the modding community (because of its size) and IMHO a truly worthwhile series of tweaks to Fallout 4, some of which apply to Survival mode but many of which could be used in the regular game) but again, sudden inspiration, and I want people to see this.

* As well, I'm aware that much of this exists as separate, incomplete mods already - but that's just the point, they're separate and incomplete, not integrated and fleshed-out.

hardcoe Realism Fallout 4 Rebalance:

Needs, Diseases, Wounds, and Treatment

Doctors Bags to heal injured limbs and wounds - with replenish-able and portion-ally usable ingredients ie. painkillers (pill bottle - 25/50/75, 2 pills per use; bandages - roll, 15/30/45ft.? 1-5ft.per wound/limb, depending on severity/location; alcohol/peroxide - 16/32 ounces, 1-3 ounces per use; scissors/scalpels - I say infinite. I like hardcoe and realism and all, I don't need to keep replacing my scissors. If you like, couple different varieties of scissors/scalpels with varying 'charges' 100/200/300ish) poultices, healing herbs, new (and/or perhaps modified) chems. Some animations for wound treatment would be bueno. No instant heals at all - Stimpaks heal over 10-20 seconds, broken limbs and wounds and diseases can take several days depending on severity and effectiveness of treatment. *ingredients are used dynamically, as appropriate, on use of Doctors Bag (applied to limbs in Pip-Boy, and can only be used when out of combat and not near enemies) all you need to do is keep your bag(s) stocked. Painkillers give a significant reduction to many negative effects of wounds and diseases (except for the worst) for 4-6hrs at a time. Perhaps a tolerance mechanic? the need to take more to get the same benefit, coupled with a mild addiction mechanic. On that note, revised mechanics, including tolerance, for all meds, chems, drugs and alchohol (not necessarily tolerance for all, but some updated mechanics with addiction for sure - specifically not being cured instantly (takes at least a couple days, if not a week) as well as increased benefits from chems, and increasingly nasty side-effects of getting clean.... and then of course meds that can mask the effect for a short period of time.

Related effects to settlements - settlers can get sick, wounded, take radiation damage, etc. doctors become more than a vendor in settlements, or ideally have a separate "doctors station" similar to the junk harvesting station. Have settler "happiness" subdivided into physical health/mental health/satisfaction - entertainment would be a neat component to settlements, influencing mental health, and satisfaction could be more general, like the original 'happiness', but worth 1/3 of original. cleanliness/sanitation would be another good element - that is to say, waste disposal/treatment

Complete overhaul of crafting requirements for settlements, as well as a realistic remake of the ingredients; you cannot build a big wood wall with like 8 pencils and 6 tin cans or whatever it is - no amount of pencils in fact should build a wood wall. Pencils and other tiny wood items would become 'scrap wood' or sawdust or something. On the other hand, trees and deadwood should give realistically larger amounts. This would be the really massive undertaking I feel. Ideally, it updates settlement resources as well with all kinds of the great mod added tweaks and resources, but only those that look and function equally to or better than vanilla, and fit with the concept (loosely though it is used in vanilla) of hand-made, largely waste-derived components. *EDIT - I'm looking at mods like Snappable Junk Fences, Better Shack Bridges, Snappable Railings, Stackable Concrete Blocks, Two-Story Walls, Interior Doors, Supports, Struts and Pillars, Windows, etc. Would be neat to have some assets related to Faction alignment as well.

Camping and (limited)crafting in the wasteland. Similar to skyrims campfire, with needs and diseases we need tents and gear (cookpots, hatchet/chopping axe, hunting knife for skinning creatures (and animations!) mortar and pestle to make basic chems/meds? with empty syringes, bloodpacks, etc. plus boiling water/alchohol, and of course plants, tinder/lighter to light campfires, ability to gather wood for fires, place/build and remove tents and campfires.

Chance for random encounters while sleeping in the wild, with varying conditions, perhaps again mitigated a bit by perks/attributes. Fires tend to keep animals away but draw raiders. Best not to sleep with a fire near a populated area.

Perk/Leveling/Attribute Overhaul

In my mind, there are relatively few changes to be made to perks to re-balance and enliven them and the game.

First, I believe Gopher is absolutely correct about the problem with Perception and VATS accuracy, and thus Perception should grant only a small boost (perhaps one percent per point of perception?) and the weapon "skill" perks convey the greater bonus. I haven't combed over the perks and attributes to find ways this same sensibility could impact other perks/attributes relations, but I'm certain it can, and should. Being able to craft makeshift fusion cores (25/50/75% of regular fusion core capacity) with the nuclear physicist perk comes to mind. As do synergies with the new Needs, Diseases, Wounds and Treatment capacities, and the new Settlement capacities.

Second, the weapon damage multipliers work well for the current vanilla survival system of increased health pools, but are overdoing it just a touch I feel, especially for a hardcoe combat re-balance. I would reduce weapon damage to 80%max increase, and perhaps add ranks to the perks, spreading the bonus out a bit. Again, I haven't looked things over to properly say, but it seems to me that increasing the #of ranks of some perks, perhaps decreasing those of others, and weaving in those synergies, as well as perhaps just a couple extra 'changing' perks that alter the way something works rather than base % bonuses is generally the way to go. Alternatively, while incorporating those synergies discussed earlier, as well as potentially adding in either some new perks or new features to existing perks that give a little more diversity/depth in just the right places, a simpler method than re scaling all perk ranks might be to simply only allow 1 perk per 2 levels.

* a thought; when first thinking about adding in implants, it seemed (and certainly is, with the base game) like it would unbalance - really just the chance to take extra perks in a game flooded with perks as is (when you count magazines and such). Just now thought about the Cyborg perk. Overhaul - it allows for the acceptance of implants which have some cool effects, each rank (3) giving you one additional implant slot for a total of 3 - nice little bonuses like drastically reduced fall damage, increased jump height, increased melee damage, general damage reduction, slow health regen, perhaps nightvision, lockpicking/hacking bonuses, etc. You can only ever use 3 in conjunction of course, and each one comes with it's own AP drain, so using all the abilities back to back will wipe out AP quickly.

Movement Overhaul

Drastically reduced backup speed, slightly increased walk speed, reduced run, perhaps slightly increased sprint, picking up speed as you go.

Chance to fall/trip. Varying chance to cripple limb/head on all falls/trips/knockdowns. Modified by Agility/Endurance attributes, any related perks. *EDIT - Basic movements have very low trip chance, more dynamic movements increase trip chance. Perhaps weapon perks could affect this a bit as well if you were weilding the relevant weapon while attempting complicated movements.

If only, if only we could get climbing and recognition of ledges, the ability to hop over small obstacles with a decent, intuitive animation. I know it won't happen, but I gotta say it cause it would really add a dimension to combat and world exploration that could really benefit gameplay.

Combat Overhaul

Again a relatively small number of changes here would really make for a more dynamic and interesting system; increasing enemy damage substantially and player damage less works much better than increasing health pools for a genuinely hard and exciting game. Increasing explosive/molotov damage in addition is good to keep you on your toes. Finding the right ratios would require careful examination of weapon damages, perk increases, armor+modifiers, pc/npc health+modifiers and so on. Tweaked specifically to feel like cover is pretty much necessary unless in Power Armor, with some survivability in full heavy regular armor.

In general, critical failures of various kinds would be nice to see. Let the game punish you a bit for min/maxing.

Exhaustion - an effect from continually draining AP, results in drastically lowered AP+Regen, again potentially tempered somewhat by perks/attributes, and definitely treatable by treatement methods above.

Better/true cover system that allows for 'hip-firing' while more covered by cover, and transitions between cover positions.

AI to reflect a better cover system, as well as group fighting and skill/equip based 'class' tactics, including surrender/runaway if drastically overpowered/outright dominated quickly.

Armor/Weapons/Crafting Overhaul

Armorsmith is awesome, but not all that carefully balanced, and some of it's features (namely all armors with all clothing) are aesthetically unappealing, unrealistic, and very much unbalanced.

The big problem I think he's solving for most people is not so much one of being more powerful, but rather having more options in terms of viable armors and specifically, looks. The solution as I see it is to use a modified version of his armor modification upgrades; the ability to put ballistic weave into more clothing (though not hats. not in vanilla game either. a bowler hat, no matter how ballistic-weaved-out, will not protect your head or face from anything. helmets yes) as well as certain material upgrades to more clothing, with the addition of some new, varied, stylized outfits made to be equipped under armor. Again, all of which needs to be carefully balanced and incorporated into the other changes i've proposed.

As an addition that doesn't have to do with re-balance so much as again, customization - the mod Craft-able Custom Combat Armor is absolutely incredible, and as far as I'm concerned I'd like to see it's features incorporated into the vanilla game, and extended (minus the invisible armor of course) to all armors including Power Armor. Choose colors/retextures, add camo, and decals. This would replace the Power Armor painting system, perhaps opening up an extra mod slot or two for PA to account for the changes. On all armor, decals of an associated faction relay a small bonus related to said faction.

DT was an interesting stat in FNV and used properly can do a really good job of simulating the effects of weak guns on heavy armors - that is to say, to negate damage almost entirely. A system worth considering.

Carry Weight/Equip Overhaul

Slightly reduced general carry weight. Ammunition has weight. All things that should, have some amount of weight. Alternatively backpacks offer increased storage. The closer to, and further over, your carry weight limit, moderate but fairly rapidly increasing debuffs and movement penalties are applied. (max -3 agi, -3 end, crippling movement speed debuff)

Show some equipped items guys, dynamically displayed equipped weapons in conjunction with backpacks and camping/survival equipment.

*disabled fast travel is a must

*ability to toggle HUD settings a la "Immersive HUD" would be amazing. will be added by mods, almost certainly by Gopher. but is a sensible and worthwhile addition to the base game.

*hell expanding on that last one, an in-game MCM with configuration settings for many parameters and safe tweak limits (different for PC and Console) would take the whole thing to the next level.

[Sara Johanna Scenariste]

This is another reason the disabling manual saves is a bad idea. Since we have no clue what our character is going to say during dialogue, we'll pick the wrong options too often. I'm on console, so I can't fix this with mods yet.

[Stephanie Nieves]

yeah take talking to Bullet during the Kid in the Fridge quest. I saw the "Buy?" and selected it thinking my character was going to ask a question. Well she did but she asked if he would buy Billy and not ask "why do you want to buy him?"

my follower promptly hated me for asking and so I went back to a not to distant save.

[Kelvin Diaz]

No, it isn't certainty, but it's also a pretty far cry from "no announcements have been made, and PS4 people might never get them." They're going to get there. We don't have exact dates, but we have an approximate timeline that lines up with exactly what many of us have assumed would be the case for quite a while.

[Bloomer]

This is the only shortcoming I see with the new Sleep/Save mechanic. Although, I'm on PC so I have dialogue mods, but I can see how this can be troublesome to console/mod-free players.

I look forward to the new system of not being able to save at a moments notice, it will create much needed tension and dread when you're fighting. As it stands now, you have nothing to lose when you die so it gives you a carefree attitude with your character where you really don't have to weigh any risks.

One idea is....outside of combat we should be able to make a save that can be loaded anytime we so choose, but not loaded if we died. This can undermine the system of diseases as most will probably just reload if they catch one....idk, I just hope they figure out something instead of ditching the no-save mechanic altogether.

[Mari martnez Martinez]

on sleep/save mechanic... brutal, but honestly i think pretty cool. really makes a lot more game choices have weight. I would add that, perhaps as an optional, to my hardcoe Rebalance mod (that will never exist, as I'm not a mod-creator, just a lowly user )

[Dan Endacott]

Didn't read the thread, but I've been thinking on the subject of diseases. Getting them constantly would really be a chore imo. I mean, imagine just curing yourself of something only to have one of the millions of ghouls out there hit you and give you the disease again? It wouldn't be too fun, imo. However, what if every time we made antibiotics the effect lasted for a set number of days which would prevent sickness for that amount of time. Maybe the effect could perhaps lower your chances of catching something or remove the chance completely for say, 2 in game days.

How do you guys think diseases will work?

[Averielle Garcia]

I have only three issues:


1) is the save thing. Mostly principle, since I normally only save manually when done playing for the day, and rely on autosaves mostly.

2) fast travel. I need that for the long distances for quests.

3) injuring legs for overencumberabce. Not that big of an issue, but it seems to limit usefulness of some builds in my eyes.

[Bigze Stacks]

I imagine something like that is how it will work. Like you said, it would get old quick if we catch the same disease from every ghoul that hits our PC, so I would think the Antibiotics will prevent catching certain types of diseases for a set number of time, probably a day in-game or so.

[Ash]

My thoughts:

As I said in other places: Make it a Toggle.

RPG-wise, a lot of people are referring to this and their character is sleeping. I don't see it that way. It's more of a "rest" or at least doing "down time activities." Skinning and butchering an animal they just killed. Packing loot and salvage neatly in Hammerspace. Stuff like that.

When I heard that these new features would be tied to Survival Difficulty. I was hesitant to do so before because I dislike bullet-sponges. I really isn't that bad ... except for the Deathclaw in Concord. I had to reload many times until I found a cheat tactical advantage I could exploit.

Since then, I found a mod that alters the Damage Output of the PC in Survival Difficulty. I upped it to Normal Difficulty levels, then to x2. Works well.

In the first 100 or so hours I played I didn't Fast Travel. I wanted to see everything. Then I switched to just Fast Traveling between Settlements. Then only Fast Traveling when I felt like it. Tried out a No Fast Travel mod for awhile.

I now use one that blocks Fast Travel, but it also adds a Teleport Pod you can use to move between Settlements. I think it is a good compromise. It would make more sense though if you could only build the Pods after [redacted] and they stop working if [redacted] happens.

I already use a mod that adds weight to ammo ... and Caps ... and Stimpacks.

I didn't like that you could only "see" Active and Hostile NPCs at first. Now I am use to it. I feel that same about this change. I'll get use to it.

There really isn't anything I can think of to compare this to, but I like the Idea.

[ONLY ME!!!!]

There really isn't anything I can think of to compare this to, but I like the Idea.

There are two mods on the Nexus that add this to the game. One adds Eating and Drinking. The other also adds Sleep. I didn't like either one.

1] Very Binary. You were either Well Fed or in Desperate Need of a Cookie. They use the Addiction function already in the game. Resourceful, but Binary.

2] No easy way to tell how close you are to needing that Cookie. And if this happened just as combat started, you're humped.

3] Incompatibility with other mods that add new Food Items. You will have some items that take care of needs and others that won't. A similar problem happened with Needs mods in Skyrim.

As a result, I removed both mods. With it being a standard part of Fallout 4, it's good and I'm looking forward to it.

I like this. I had a mod that added Fatigue to New Vegas, but I never got it to work right.

[jaideep singh]

a far cry? That's subjective, what howard said isn't definitive and quite frankly you can't blame me with my concerns seeing how bethesda has always screwed playstation fanbase since Oblivion got ported. All those cool dlc's that came out(baring from horse armor) never got to the playstation version and since then they've always took developing PS console versions less serious compared to xbox. So personally i'm not holding my breath with the mods until they we something more definitive

[evelina c]

Nothing to really compare this to mod-wise for Fallout 4, but in Skyrim, I had a mod that made things harder to cure. I liked it ... when it worked right. I think I removed it because it was buggy. The standard diseases were fine.

I already have a mod that does this.

This makes sense. Though, as others have pointed out, Strong Back with need to be updated.

I didn't really travel with Companions in New Vegas, Fallout 3, or Skyrim. In New Vegas they could be killed, if you were in hardcoe Mode, which I always was. If they did get killed I often went to an earlier save. I think this is a good compromise.

Also, I use a mod that remove Unlimited Ammo from Companions. I did the same in New Vegas.

When I wasn't using Fast Travel, the Respawn Rate seemed almost too quick. I recently, as in yesterday, got a mod that about doubles the Respawn Timer. We will have to see what they mean by "Significant."

[Lizs]

first overall i like it except for3 things and those 3 things sort of makes this whole concept futile

one adrenaline

what is this what is the purpose and why is this in hardcoemode , this whole concept belonfs in a brainless arcadestyle shooter , NOT in a rpg game

disable manual/quicksave

the most idiotic senseless immersionbreajung feature ever seen in a bethesda game

this feature will in the end annoy and frustrate more people than you wiill think

example , not all of us are locked up in a cellar playing gamers 24/7 the vast majority of us have families, friends work or school , what if your spuse or kids need your attention urgently while you are in the middle of a prolonged gunfight

what if you are in stttlement mode and after a few hours of building your perfect settlement the game suddenly ctd s

how immersive is it when you are in the middle a difficult dungoncrawl you suddenly take out your sleepingbag and sleep for a hour in a ghoul infested dungon

this whole hardcoe version is suppose to improve immersion not break it

third why only on survival diffulty why not make these feature optional andavailable for all difficulty levels

just look at FO 3 lone wanderer mod or FO NV project Nevada mod or even skyrim realistic needs and disease mod in all those mods every feature is not only optional bit also configurabel so why not in FO 4 with survival difficulty all mods active and the douvle damage

I love you bethesda you made some of my all time favorite games but sometimes i wonder what on earth you guys been smoking again

[Harry Hearing]

A mod to remove unlimited ammo from companions? Companions don't have unlimited ammo. You have to supply them with ammo and they go through it just like you do.

You can give settlers 1 bullet and it'll give them infinite ammo. Is this what you're referring to?

[kennedy]

I think it sounds absolutely fantastic.... except for the saving restriction. Just think about it. How many times do you die doing a dungeon? In my case, if they use grenades its a lot. They simply materialise in my pocket and I'm dead. So I would have to go back to where I last slept, go to the dungeon and start it all over again. And again. Does that sound like fun to anyone?

I really, really hope they drop this, because regardless of how awesome the rest of it sounds I don't think I would use it as it stands now.

[Michael Korkia]

The weapon they start with has unlimited ammo. Give Preston a Laser Rifle and some Energy Cell. He will use the Laser Rifle until he runs out of cells ... then switch to his Laser Musket ... even if he doesn't have cells left.

The same is true for Companions in New Vegas.

This mod removes the special ammo their starter weapons uses. So now you always have to give them ammo.

For Fallout 4

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/6470/?

For New Vegas

http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/49217/?

[victoria johnstone]

Ah, okay. I was thinking in terms of weapons that you equip them with. I've had all of my companions equipped with way better weapons for like the last 500 hours of game play, and I'm so used to providing them with ammo that I didn't even think of that. Yes, their default weapons have unlimited ammo.