[Carys]

Remember to keep discussion civil, constructive and on-topic. Use this as a feedback thread to consolidate all ideas and opinions related to this new mode for easy viewing for us and Bethesda.

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http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1593274-survival-mode-full-overview-confirmed-by-bethesda/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1593386-new-survival-mode-feedback-and-discussion-thread-2/

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Current Survival mode details extracted from game files: (These were confirmed by https://twitter.com/BethesdaStudios/status/702583559392010240; Original Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/47byms/fallout_4_survival_mode_full_overview_extracted/)

*Keep in mind, this isn't the full change-log for the patch, some other changes to the game are more than likely to be made to supplement this new mode. This will be a free update to the base game on all platforms after a short (up to one month) Beta test on Steam. You can sign up for DLC Beta testing https://account.bethesda.net/en/settings/beta/fallout4dlc/signup. Will update OP as more info is released.

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I thought someone else would make a new one since there was some good ongoing discussions...keep at it.

[brenden casey]

I already mentioned in previous threads that i dislike the "sleep" and "fast travel" aspects and why i think it would be a good thing to make them toggleable.

But another thing disturbes me. Not because i don't like it... i think it would be great.

I'm talking about the

"Companions will no longer automatically get back up if downed during combat and will return home if abandoned without being healed."

The problem i have with it is:

In the current state of the game there is no way it will work like intended.

Companion stepping on a hole in the ground, badly injured, no way to find him in time... traveling home.

The AI is just too dumb to make this a worthwhile feature.

Many times i hear my companion being in trouble and i have no idea were he/she is, seconds before he was right behind me.

There is no pointer to where he might be, i have no chance to find him (especially in multistore environments).

So i got the feeling that this, while a nice idea, just won't work.

[courtnay]

Mini-nukes and nuclear cars should do significant radiation emission when they explode, so if you are a bit close to a nuke blast you must take RadAway. I mean there is a blast radius and then a radiation radius which is much larger.

Don't give companions infinite ammo supply for base weapon or any weapon.

Ability to pay tribute to settlement attackers to avoid getting attacked.

Radio and light alerts enemies of your presence.

[Carlos Vazquez]

Maybe it should... sounds reasonable.

But if you are hit by a mini nuke, radiation is the last thing to worry about

Edit: on second thought...

with 50% damage reduction on explosives, 3x15% damage reduction while standing still and upright, 15% dmg reduction on humans, 600hp... i should survive a direct impact. didn't test it so far.

so maybe radiation could add something

[^~LIL B0NE5~^]

I hadn't even thought about that. Maybe it'll be a thing that isn't time based, but based on the area you're in. Like you leaving the cell they're in would cause that. But either way you're right, fall damage would be a pain in the neck. Any idea if the acrobat legendary effect works on them? I don't want to give them a power armor frame.

[Tiff Clark]

Might be a thing that makes me invest in Lone Wanderer now. Not that I'd want to

[vanuza]

Never tested that... and it wouldn't apply to Dogmeat anyway.

But it doesn't have to be falling damage.

Sometimes companions just take another route if they got caught by some obstacle and fall behind... and you have no idea whwere they might be. Meanwhile pulling every enemy upon them.

[Czar Kahchi]

Would be better if they actually physically would start going there. Sure, they are injured, so start limping.. or crawling!! How else to they get home? Magic teleporter? That way you'll have time to stop them after the fight aslong as you can find their crawling body to stab him with a stimpak. When I think of it, it seems strange the they have planned to just make the companions just dissapear up in thin air.

Who knows, maybe it means and they will simply be returned home if we enter a new cell or go too far away when the area stops rendering. I just presumed it would be some kind of "timer" but that's sounds as a cheap solution for bethesda to use.

[Kathryn Medows]

Might be that they'll just stay down until you leave the area, and then despawn and teleport to their last place of residence. I honestly don't think I'll have too much trouble with this, but it would still be nice to have quest markers come up to track companions.

[Tom]

They could just start to limp their way out and find a way back home... i wouldn't care.

But it's the absolute nonsense to implement this in the current state of AI behaviour that's disturbing. I start to lose faith in this game if implemented this way... especially if the "new" survival mode should replace the current one and not be an additional choice.

And then see it in addition to "no fast travel" (to get them back).

Companions would get obsolete.

[Breanna Van Dijk]

I am still getting that bug whereby companions stay in the injured stance post combat - wasn't this supposed to be fixed in 1.3? I'd like a timer to kick-in when companions go down. You've only got 60 seconds to rescue a companion in the heat of combat with a stimpack. Failure to get them by that time, and they expire. Make them mortal! Mind you, their pathfinding & AI would have to be considerably improved before implementing such a feature.

I suspect that antibiotics will cure all diseases with one shot. But I what I would really like to see would be specific antibiotics to combat specific diseases. Having to comb the wasteland to find a mutated fern to craft a cure. Doubt we'll get to see anything as pleasingly complex as that though

[Charity Hughes]

No, you'd just have to take care of them - good thing Stims are so common now. Giving them better armor helps a ton - most default companion outfits offer zero protection. And with better weapons and ammo, they'll finally become effective. A properly outfitted companion should only go down from Suiciders or protracted battles, at that point - and you can give them Stimpaks for them to use themselves. Stimpaks are pretty common, right?

No to mortal companions - there are some that are essential for quests, anyway, like Danse or Preston, so that couldn't work in the first place.

I feel like the phrasing of the description implies there will be multiple different types of antibiotics, but there still might be a cure-all one like Addictol or Refreshing Beverage. I'd prefer to see them group antibiotics with different types of diseases - like, ghoul or radiation induced diseases would require a different cure than diseases from eating rotten food. I mean, they talked about insomnia in an interview, and I doubt that would take the same antibiotic as something you'd catch off a Bloatfly...

[Ebou Suso]

I personally am worried about the no fast travel for one reason alone.

Right now in the game its easy to get stuck somewhere....like between textures or someplace else.

And the only fix right now is to fast travel at these times.

Although if enemies are around this is prevented as well.

I am hoping someone from Bethesda reads this....and maybe adds a feature in the menus maybe under the options you can access while in game...that is a single usage unstick semi-transport for such issues.....ie in other games you could use an unstick command or had the ability to select an option that would move you out of your current place to a location close by so you wouldn't be stuck anymore.

Anywise I can reproduce this issue on all consoles and PC versions of this game.......thus survival mode sounds neat in many ways....but certain issues in game make it very bad....and there is no way to bypass those issues currently.

[matt]

The "mortal companions" thing was done before and not that well accepted.

The proposed way would be a nice compromise... if it would work.

Good ideas are just that, they aren't always practical.

Without wanting to go into politics, there is one good example.

Karl Marx was a quite intelligent man. He had some really good ideas... but at the same time he told his wife, that he really doesn't want to be still alive if someone really tried to actually make them reality.

He knew it were good ideas... but he also knew they couldn't be "implemented" successfully by human beings.

[[ becca ]]

I hope they have a really liberal definition of what constitutes as a "disease". Like, give us Paranoia or something if we go an extended amount of time without ever talking to another NPC, or if we get Lover's Comfort a lot we risk a Strange Rash that lowers our Luck. And bring back Nuka Cola addictions!

[GEo LIme]

like not taking a shower for several weeks lowering your charisma?

that's something i could agree to.

one way to make your char more... real.

oh wait, we can't shower or take a bath in this game...

and if you ask yourself how i could like this and not the sleep option, there's a difference... and you might understand it if you think about it

[Alexandra Ryan]

Oh, speaking of sleep saves... we should run the risk of getting lice if we sleep in a ton of unowned beds.

[Javier Borjas]

Don't forget about STD, rabies (i'm the rabid rabbit)... there are so much opportunities.

But forced sleeping/walking kills it all....

[Lance Vannortwick]

Hm, no fast travel... how about "Athlete's Foot"?

[Lauren Graves]

This is spot on.

The three biggest issues with their concept are the no saving, no fast travel and the companion change.

Saving - Too many issues with the game to pull this off. Not talking about just crashes (like some people seem to think) but just bugs and other badly designed game aspects. Didn't know a certain NPC would turn hostile because you entered his cave with a certain power armor mod on your helmet? Well, now you will really suffer for Bethesda not fixing the brawl bug that's been a problem since skyrim. Die because your knee touched a car bumper as you ran past? Too bad, go back hours and replay your game. Make a permanent bad choice because of the crappy dialogue preview? Live with it or go back hours and replay. A NPC ran into the middle of a gun fight with a switchblade and got shot and your whole settlement is now enemies with you? Too bad, go back hours and replay to fix it. I could go on, I've played through the game five times now and probably have actually died half a dozen times total and mostly in the first play or by screwing around. However I've had saves help me fix countless bugs and get past lazy design decisions probably more than two dozen times. This isn't the type of game you have to save on before a big fight/encounter - it's the type of game you have to save afterward so you don't have to go back and re-clear an area or rebuild a settlement.

Fast Travel - I'm not much for fast travel, BUT poor design decisions can make it a necessity for some people. Combined with stuff respawning slower and you are creating a boring game for someone to have to walk back and forth across half the map for fetch quests. Also the whole settlement attacks (still have to see if they pull this off with a fix) is horrible as is. All the way down in the bottom of the map and settlement at the top with 500 defense gets attacked? Start walking - oh, and if you don't go, they will get destroyed and if you show up they are fine and the huge defense destroys all enemies. Settlement attacks are a huge waste of time in the game and were very lazily designed. Combine this with no saving and have fun with the walking simulator, especially when you have to repeat it because of going back to fix something.

AI/Companions - Again, lazily designed. Companion AI (all NPC AI in general) is horrible. I don't travel with companions, the couple of times I've tried I end up sending them away after one fight (even dogmeat). They svck up stimpaks ten times faster than I do already. Plus - Taking aim with a sniper rifle? Let me step in front of you. Trying to get through a doorway? Let me stand in front of you. Etc. Having a companion with you makes the game harder, not easier.

With the design problems of the game, these concepts, as amazing as they are, just won't work well. Fortunately I'm on PC and like many issues with the game that don't get fixed, mods will fix it. I feel for console players however.

[Sammygirl]

nice idea but doesn't cure my problem with it

on this topic, i'm absolutely not on the RPG trip.

even in character i couldn't stand making the same trip over and over again.

it's just boring. it adds nothing for me (and don't tell me about exploring... i'm doing this whenever i'm in the mood to and i don't think i haven't seen anything after 630 hours)

this adds nothing but boredom.

if i want to go and run around, i just do it.

if i don't want to do it, it's boring as hell and i fast travel.

if i'm forced to walk, the game get's a boring hell of walking.

some may enjoy this for the reason of immersion... i don't.

and i don't see why i should be missing the interesting parts of the updates without getting put to sleep by the boring ones.

[Johanna Van Drunick]

Progress the storyline far enough and you unlock faster / instantaneous travel anyway. I don't see the problem with removing the normal fast travel for this, the most hardcoe of modes.

Can't wait to call in a Vertibird, knowing this time I really need it....

[Alyce Argabright]

What's Bethesda's resistance to weapons/armor degradation? Would be a good way to sink some of our overabundant resources. Plus would be cool if weapons jammed if in poor condition, or a cruddy pipe rifle blowing up in you face. Force us to use melee more often.

[Katharine Newton]

[Chris Guerin]

i thought this hardcoe mode is for the real roleplayers?

now if i'm not aligned to BS i'm out of that?

Really... this isn't "hardcoe". not for the roleplayers and definately not for the ones looking for challenges in battle.

In the complete package its [censored]. boring and in sum nothing added for excitement.

If i had to decide between current survival and the new proposals as a whole package... i'd take the current one.

some nice ideas... some could even work.

but nothing i would trade against fasttravel.

but i'll lean back and see how all those "hardcoes" will leave the game as soon as they got what they wanted (because the game svcks)... just like in every other game...