Hi all,

I'm definitely looking to get into TES, it looks amazing. Trouble is, I get conflicting responses on which game to focus on. I'd like to purchase one based on what I love in a game. I'm NOT concerned about difficulty, hand-holding that newer players may require, I don't want a game that gently introduces me to the series if it's too easy or lacks depth. I figured a post in the general forum would yield better results than in one of the three newer games' forums.

I REALLY value replayability above most anything else, as well as the sheer amount of content (lots and lots of quests!), a high difficulty, depth, and enjoyable characters.

I can't stand a lack of depth (an overabundance of fetch/linear quests is so irritating), a lack of replayability, etc. I think you get the picture. I have very little concern for fancy graphics, and anything that you consider gamebreaking that cannot be changed via mods - I'll be getting whatever game for the PC. I'm kind of obsessive about focusing on one game for a time, so please just give me one option but if not, I understand

I've been playing PC games for over fifteen years - I know, it's absolutely insane I've never picked up an Elder Scrolls Game except for Arena. My dad sat me in front of the computer when I was little to play Arena with him, but that's it. So again, a game that's not always kind to newcomers is not an issue as long as everything else is solid I've played a crapton of difficult games - including terrific games with horrendous graphics. I'm used to it.

I'm pretty evenly open to Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim. Arena only has a little bit of vague memories and nostalgia going for it, and Daggerfall doesn't seem to be much different.

Thanks in advance!

Everyone is going to have their favourites, and all the games have strengths and weaknesses. Well, except Oblivion... it's mostly just weaknesses...

Based on what you indicate, you could probably just put cards on a table (one for each game) and pick at random. Where you start isn't going to be important. Those games that have the most depth have the least enjoyable characters (Daggerfall and Morrowind have a handful of semi-interesting characters, with only a couple of what i would personally call 'good' ones). All the games have great re-playability, though i frankly think Daggerfall is lightyears ahead of anything since in that particular regard...

I would suggest starting with Morrowind, because it's very approachable for the modern player, while still retaining a lot of the complexity and replay value that Daggerfall had. There's no particular need to play the games in any order, so you can really start anyplace.

Daggerfall is superficially similar to Arena in terms of graphics appearance, but it is a far superior game. It is a true TES game. So don't be too quick to discount it. It's a very good game.

All in all that's true, but even though Daggerfall has unmatched depth in certain areas like character customization or size and replayability, it completely lacks any in other parts, like quests (a lot of them are just randomly generated), aesthetics or choice. While still a great game, it hasn't aged as well as the other titles. Also, and maybe it's just personal preference, but I think Morrowind and Skyrim definitely had the most interesting characters overall.

Based on what you are looking for, Morrowind seems to be a perfect fit. From that you can either work your way up or down the series. The graphics aren't all that great anymore, but you said yourself that graphics aren't an issue for you, and it totally makes up for it with an amazing artstyle. Be advised though, every Elder Scrolls game has quite a few fetch quests. Morrowind isn't an exception.

In all fairness, its Radiant Quests are actually still really good, mostly due to the ability to randomly generate appropriate NPC's and dialogue not being bogged down by the need of VA's. The rest of the series, (except Oblivion, which has some pretty good quests to begin with) can only dream of having something similar to what Daggerfall did there.

Oh, definitely. Daggerfall's depth and replayability stems from its size and open aspects, not from any particular volume of really definable activities. It's probably the weakest in terms of actual quests (not including Arena) by simple merit that it really only has a single questline. The random quests are allright on their own, but can get repetitive rather quickly.

I also agree that Morrowind and Skyrim have the most interesting characters, but Morrowind's are relatively sparse in comparison. Where everyone in Skyrim has some degree of personality, most of Morrowind is populated by barely articulate drones. The lack of character for most of the population makes those that DO have character pop more, but with the notable exceptions of Almalexia and Vivec, even they are somewhat shallow by modern stroy-telling standards. So are Skyrim's, but a shuffle forward is still travel in the right direction.

Skyrim

Honestly, Skyrim is a game that insists on the player being able to do anything they want, and therefore focuses on virtually nothing when it comes to gameplay.

It's pretty hard to just sum up, but I'll try. If you want further detail into the positive elements of the game, have a look at general discussion. I'm mostly focusing on the negative here.

It lacks a lot of that role-playing stuff you'd expect to find in a role-playing game, in that the NPC interactions are ridiculously limited in some areas, the consequences of the player's actions on the world often hardly noticeable. Indeed, as are the consequences affecting the player character.

It's a game that focuses on making the player feel like a bad-ass. The combat has some semblance of difficulty at times if you're not prepared, but really the game was made to sweep up as much money as possible, often with no regard for those who wanted a rich, challenging and immersive experience.

Despite all this, I would say there is replayability if you're willing to leave a lot to the imagination or want a great-looking time sink with a lot of weapons, things to fight, craft, enchant etc. and places to explore. There are still many likeable characters; it's just that many of them never made it to their full potential.

You might consider going to the mods forum and asking for mods that make the game more immersive and challenging.

As for Oblivion: Eh. I know this might seem petty... but the outside game world killed it for me - it's just so bland and repetitive. Too few voice actors were hired also. If you're willing to overlook that you will likely enjoy the quests and missions if I am remembering correctly.

I'm more comfortable leaving that to Oblivion fans honestly.

And finally: Morrowind. I started it far too late apparently. The archaic game mechanics and graphics just underwhelmed me - I stopped playing.

Good luck... Hopefully this thread will catch the attention of Pseron Wryd. He knows his [censored].

Based on what the OP said about not needing the latest and greatest graphics or hand holding and wanting a complex game with depth, I would agree that it sounds like Morrowind would be the place to start. I'd recommend the Morrowind Code Patch and MGE XE, as well as the 1.6.6 version of the unofficial patch by quorn. That will give you a nice stable game with most bugs fixed and (with MGE XE) the ability to play in widescreen at your preferred resolution, as well as the ability to scale the UI to increase the text size if you have old tired eyes like mine that cannot read tiny text. Morrowind has text based dialog so you need to be able to read it comfortably.

Now, now, some would say Oblivion strikes a happy medium between the complexity of Morrowind and the superior combat and sneak mechanics of Skyrim, and the biggest complaints about Oblivion (excessive level scaling, attribute chasing, potato faces, generic landscapes and dungeons) can easily be corrected with mods like Realistic Levelling, Maskar's Oblivion Overhaul and Oblivion Character Overhaul, Unique Landscapes and Snu's Dungeons/Better Dungeons).

Hey there! Welcome to the forums. By the sound of it, I think Morrowind is your best bet.

It will kind of throw you into the thick of things and you will get lost and maybe even die but that is the best part of it. The first time struggle is a very real part of Morrowind that does not exist in the later TES games. There is enough depth to character development for what you're looking for that is also not in later TES games. My biggest concern on your list is what you'll think of the graphics. Luckily, the Morrowind modding community here is quite resourceful, talented, and helpful. They can point you in the right direction for whatever you need to bring the game to 2015.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZKHu5n8TiI

Another reason to start with Morrowind is so you can watch the game evolve. It evolves in every aspect, from graphically, to the game's history, to how you'll interact with NPCs – you'll even hear the main theme evolve into the thunderous Skyrim theme song that everyone is familiar with.

Not EVERYONE's biggest complaints. If it weren't for the bad-ass dragon which now holds my headset when i'm not using it, Oblivion would have been enough for me not to pre-order Bethesda games anymore... even after i thoroughly enjoyed Fallout 3. It's just so big a stumble backwards in every way but gameplay mechanics that i am entirely mystified by its popularity (especially on the Nexus forums. bloody hells, say anything negative about Oblivion there and they haul out the pitchforks...).

That said, i fully recognise that i am in a relative minority for reviling the game as much as i do. I also think Hockey and Football are tedious, boring sports and have never been able to sit through an entire game of either... So it's quite clear to me that my personal sensibilities may not run alongside 90% of the populations. Keeping that in mind was why i didn't instantly recommend against Oblivion, though i admit i was rather negative about its... negatives (is that a double negative?).

Yep, I'm going to throw another vote in for Morrowind. I actually started with Oblivion, then Skyrim ... and only then did I play through Morrowind. I wish I'd done it in order to be honest.

Morrowind Pros: Excellent writing, beautiful hand-crafted world, a bit more complexity than the later games - a more 'traditional' RPG all round, really. And also the most interesting antagonist(s) in the series hands down.

Like Turija, I'd probably recommend getting a few mods to compliment the experience - aside from the ones already mentioned, I'd probably add the delayed Dark Brotherhood attacks. Otherwise they get annoying really fast - and Tribunal doesn't make an awful lot of sense if you're not considerably through the main quest anyway

I seriously thought I was the only one. Try as I might I can't get into Oblivion. For me it's just a combination of the worst things Morrowind and Skyrim have to offer. A game that stands in between change and doesn't really excel at anything... Really, I don't know why Oblivion is always so much more appreciated than Morrowind and sometimes even Skyrim. I want to enjoy this game so much, but I simply can't and I don't know what I could do to change that.

Edit: Sorry for getting a bit off topic...

I ultimately would say it depends on what you'd enjoy. I think it would probably be best to play all of them upward, if you have the willingness. I should preface this with the fact that I've only played Oblivion (over 1,000 hours) and Skyrim (about 200 hours) and watched a significant amount of gameplay of Morrowind. I've only seen a tiny bit of daggerfall, however.

Daggerfall seems to have the common sentiment of being the most complex and "traditional" RPG of the series. People also appreciate its grand scope, but some people find it a bit repetitive and archaic, as well as suffering from some useless skills. Despite this, I've seen some people say that they like rather useless skills being in a game.

Morrowind seems to have the common sentiment of having the most developed game world, culture, politics, philosophy, and factions of any of the other games in the series, and its land is very bizarre and alien compared to anything else in the series. However, many people find the mechanics to be archaic and some things to be a bit unbalanced mechanically.

Oblivion seems to have the common sentiment of being the more generic fantasy of the games (I don't actually 100% agree, since there are still many oddities in the game, although primarily located in the DLC). Many people also complain about the things that Turija mentioned, with potato-faces (they didn't bug me) and the horrific level scaling (although mods can cure this easily). However, many of the quests in Oblivion are the strongest in the series for many people, and I would ultimately say it has the best quests in the series. While many people say it's generic to them, I have a very fond nostalgia for Cyrodiil and its atmosphere, which I personally loved, although this may be due to the fact that it was my first TES game. I also personally like the cities in Oblivion better than the cities in Skyrim, in terms of their layout, especially Bruma, Skingrad, and Chorrol. I also think it has a nice amount of dialogue and almost every NPC in the entire game has at least some unique line of dialogue that you won't hear from another NPC, although the voice acting gets very repetitive. There are also not very many settlements in the game outside of the 9 main cities.

Skyrim seems to have the common sentiment of having the best combat, the best special effects and general "feel" of the crazy stuff that happens. It also probably has the best dungeons (although some would say Daggerfall does due to its deep dungeons). The problem for me is that I often didn't want to go to the towns/cities very often since I felt like they were lacking something and I found most of the NPCs either annoying due to their attitude or just boring because of a total lack of dialogue. Most of my time spent playing Skyrim was spent in dungeons and I didn't feel like there were as many exciting quests as I had gotten used to in Oblivion. In fact, I felt like in Skyrim, the majority of quests were ultimately very shallow and fetch-oriented (bring this to this person, etc.). I also didn't like how there were numerous settlements in the game where if you tried to engage in dialogue with the majority of the NPCs, you'd just get a "hey" or "hmm?" response. It made me ultimately not want to explore most of the random towns in the game. Some of the guild questlines in Skyrim are also notoriously short.

It really depends on what kind of experience you want. They all have good replayability, so thats not really a problem. As far as the modern games go (Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim) Morrowind is the hardest, but none of them really hold your hand very much. If you're looking for one that's hard, but not insane, and still doesn't hold your hand very much, I'd reccomend Oblivion. If you're looking for a game that's challenging, but not unfair, and has great guild and main quests, I'd recommend Morrowind. If you're looking for a game with easier(But not all to easy) combat, but a more detailed world with many random encounters, I'd recommend Skyrim.

All the games have their own strengths and weaknesses, as well as their own charm; thy're all amazing games so follow your heart, choose the one that's the most intriguing to you.

My vote would be to start with Morrowind, then take a quick side trip back to Daggerfall before moving on to Skyrim/Oblivion. If the graphics seem 'old' to you, there are mods to beef them up (personally, I just use a better bodies mod). The story and setting are wonderful. I don't know anyone who says they've found all there is to find in Morrowind. Mechanically, Daggerfall is one of the best RPG's ever made. The graphics are old-skool, but it works for that game. The dungeons are huge, like no other game I can think of (other than a pure dungeon crawler). Looking at where you are and what you've uncovered in the auto-map can be mind boggling till you get used to it, but the map is helpful once you learn to use it.

After that, you'll have all the lore and background you need to jump into the newer titles and understand them. You may also understand some of the design decisions and why the games do things the way they do (since both Oblivion and Skyrim were designed by adapting the exisitng sytsems).

As far as replayability - you could spend years on any one of those games and not have seen/done it all.

Welcome to the universe and enjoy your fishy stick!

You must not have read this recent thread: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1537080-why-does-oblivion-get-so-much-hate/