Jacobdg,

And we were doing so well too. Then you had to take your subjective opinion and argue it as fact.

This is why we can't have nice things.

I didn't say I couldn't figure it out, I just said that I had no motivation. I wasn't written as a hero, or a villain or anything for that matter. There was no reason for me to care at all. The best I could come up with is "for the caps". And that's not good enough for me.

Yes the nation that has numerous borders with caravans always looking to branch out clearly only went through the Mojave. Oregon? Nah blocked off, only through Nevada. Idaho? Nah, only to Nevada. Nope, the NCR only goes through the Mojave, that's it, only through the Mojave.

No, no Lonesome Road is interchangeable. It's part of the game, just because it's an expansion doesn't instantly make it not part of the game anymore. I can use it to criticize the writing of the game because it's part of the game.

Again, the Courier literally works for the Mojave Express, they would have to know what the NCR is. Lonesome Road states the courier has delivered packages from NCR clients. AGAIN, it's bad writing and your excuses to justify it doesn't change the fact. It could've been written in numerous ways to say "Oh the courier knows but for convenience sake we'll write it to tell what other people know to educate new players." but instead we got "What is the NCR? I life in a bubble of obliviousness and stupidity that can't be assed to pay attention to current events that a child would know"

Saying "well it can be ignored" is not a valid argument, saying "It's a choose" doesn't make it fine.

This is what Bethesda [censored] need to understand the most.

No one hates Bethesda. They hate that they didn't improve on the amazing things New Vegas did for the series.

Story-wise, it's easier to pick a side in NV than in Fallout 4. I also liked the structure of the main quest better in Fallout 4, because they focused more on issues that the factions had instead of giving you an excuse to do side quests for minor factions.

However, dialogue in Fallout 4 is terribly limited compared to NV. There are more skill checks involved, including Medicine and Barter, and SPECIAL checks like Perception. In Fallout 4, the only check is Charisma and that's a SPECIAL stat. There's less Q&A rounds with the questgivers, even when compared with Fallout 3. This is my biggest complaint of Fallout 4.

Another complaint that I have with Fallout 4 and not NV is this - the lack of quest hubs. In NV, I know that most side quests are in towns and faction locations.

I want something to do in NV? No problemo, just pick a random town and I'll very likely get a quest.

I want something to do in Fallout 4? Just wander around aimlessly and maybe a side quest will find me.

Comparing Fallout 4 to Skyrim, I always had a backlog of stuff to do in Skyrim (vanilla and modded) but my Fallout 4's journal looks empty and unloved. I know it was a complaint that Skyrim handed you quests on a silver platter, but looking at it now, I think Bethesda did the right thing. I love being overwhelmed with content and Fallout 4 doesn't give me that feeling.

NV does. Oblivion does. Morrowind does. Skyrim does. Fallout 3 and 4 don't.

You do know that NV was an Obsidian game, yes?

To me it's like Disney taking over Star Wars and making it perfectly clear that they are going to completely ignore the entire canon of the expanded universe as if it never existed and not allow anything more to ever be made of it thereby nullifying 30 years of writings.

Bethesda wants to ignore NV and get on with what they've been doing for 20 years in the way that they do it. For better or worse, that's, apparently just the way it is.

Alienating a portion of your fanbase is a really dumb thing to do.

But Bethesda didn't ignore NV. The structure of Fallout 4's MQ is exactly the same as NV's, and Bethesda took points from Arcade Gannon's like/dislike system and implemented a fuller version of it in Fallout 4.

Did they implement it as well as NV did? No they didn't, but at least they're trying.

In Fallout 3 or 4 your not written as a hero or villain. For all we know Nate or Nora could have drug addiction, beat on their spouse, cheat on them with a neighbor and pleasure themselve to child porm. Looking for your son doesn't make you a hero if you do other terrible stuff.

True, but there are always more fans apparently. I mean, look at Disney. They've pissed off a huge number of the original Star Wars fans with their move, and yet they still have the #1 movie, ever. Why? A new generation.

The same holds true of F4. I've actually met about 1/2 a dozen folks that are playing F4 that have no idea what FNV even is.

Honestly? Yea, Fallout 4's like/dislike system was way better. I didn't have to do specific quests or end up locking myself out of their quest because oops I did all the stuff that effects like before meeting him. It wasn't "trying" it was straight up improved.

Which isn't what I said is it? Simply that they never went everywhere and their progress further east has been even less likely since the rise of the Legion. There is no reason a guy from post-apocalyptic middle of nowhere Wyoming who arrives in the Mojave would necessarily know anything about the NCR or have any experience with it.

Evidently not since it's an optional DLC. You can criticize the writing of Lonesome Road for introducing these issues all you want I know I do. You can't argue that then makes the writing of the base game done before Lonesome Road was conceived by different people as bad because they didn't read the future and predict what was coming. It makes Lonesome Road bad for introducing inconsistencies.

We have no idea how or where the Courier got the job with the Mojave Express nor can you give me any reason why taking a job from the Mojave Express would inherently require anyone to be familiar with the NCR.

Alright, I meant the MQ at least in terms of RPG mechanics (not the flow, but the skill and SPECIAL checks).

Arcade's system was pretty limited and only was done for a fair few interactions. Fallout 4's was fuller and applies to every side quest. Really increases replay value if you do one companion per character.

It's a real shame because it's true.

Even all of my hardcoe Fallout friends said they turned on Fallout 4 for two hours, and they didn't know why but they just turned it off. They thought it was boring.

It just isn't like its previous successors.

Aparantly Benny is supposed to be a well written and interesting foil, even though all he does is shoots you then sods off to a casino in Vegas. Whereas you can either kill him there or he escapes only to be caught by The Imperia... I mean the Legion anyways.

The only thing i like about Benny is the voice actor, Matthew Perry did a solid job. Wish my female courier could join Benny instead, but nope, or well mods let you do this atleast.

I have played and enjoyed Fallout 1,2,3,4, and NV. I love them all.

But, Fallout 4 is my second favorite and NV is my least favorite.

Oh no another one of these threads

Cue the I hate this version of FO vs. I hate that version of FO.

And then have Kellogg who shots your spouse and run off to the Insititute. Both weren't all that interesting.

To be fair... Benny actually got a reaction out of me, he had a despicable personality and got under my skin enough that I enjoyed killing him. Couldn't have cared less about Kellogg.

But I LOVE this version of FO and I love that version of FO too! Okay, except F2. My computer broke while I was playing it and I couldn't afford another so had to play F3 on the PS3. F2 broke my Computer!

NCR was founded in 2186, the NCR took over a good portion of New California by 2189, the first push to enter into the Mojave was before 2253 when 38 NCR citizens went into the Mojave. The Legion and NCR didn't start fighting until 2277. It wasn't even the NCR itself that first entered into the Mojave, it was NCR citizens and caravans which were the prime targets of raiders. This is of course only assuming that people only in the NCR and the Mojave, know about the NCR. AGAIN, the NCR is a massive civilization compared to most of the wasteland, with a population of 700,000. Hell, even Nick Valentine all the way in Boston knows what the New California Republic is yet a courier who lives on the west coast doesn't? Seriously, people would know what the NCR is on the west coast. I know this might shock you but a huge republic with a large population and large, organized trading maybe would be well known by people on the west coast.

Just because Lonesome Road is a dlc doesn't mean jack all, it's part of the game, it's part of the world, it's part of the story of the courier and also shows parts of the current events in the Mojave. It is interchangeable with the game and sticking your fingers into your ear going "NOPE" doesn't change that.

Yes because as we all know the Mojave is a trans-continental mail service with airplanes and trains! Don't forget the boats, the helicopters, the vertibirds, the trans-dimensional teleporter and the alien ship! That's how the courier managed to get from Jersey City all the way to the Mojave without a single shred of knowledge of the west coast! Face it, bad writing is bad writing and the excuse "but, but I can ignore it!" doesn't justify it.

The NCR, despite what you may think, is a pretty big deal on the west coast that a lot of people would know about, including yes! The courier!

I wish I could have teamed up with Kellogg to take down the Institute. So he shot my husband and kidnapped my kid (okay, helped to). I didn't much like that yutz anyhow and what good are kids.

However unlike with Benny at least with Kellog you can unlock memories frol him to find out why he is the way he is. In other words character build up and depth. Admittedly it happens after yoiu've already killed him but in playthrough 2 and beyond I now have a respect forr the character.

I didn't feel for Kellogg before after his death, loved exploring is memories in the Den. Was also a nice touch when you could comment on that to Shaun later.