I've seen a lot of people complaining about New Vegas and saying it isn't half as good as Fallout 3, so I've decided a paint a big target on my chest and give a list of the reasons I think New Vegas absolutely blows Fallout 3 out of the water.

-The world feels alive. The Strip alone has more life and fun in it than anything found in Fo3. Was anyone else completely disappointed by how dead and undeveloped Rivet City (the biggest settlement in the wasteland outside of the Brotherhood/Enclave) was? Yeah, good job fixing that with New Vegas, Obsidian. Big props.

-There are actual characters. With so few exceptions I could count them on my fingers*, there were no characters in Fallout 3. In this context when I say character I mean a character with a defined, reasonably believable personality that gets more than three or four lines of dialog before being shuffled off. I don't want Shakespeare level character depth, mind you, but almost the entire cast of Fo3 felt like a bunch of robots. Every follower I've tried in New Vegas has a personality, a story, a driving motivation that puts anything from Fo3 to shame, and the main and even secondary characters actually feel like people. Hell, even the robots feel more like people in this game than the characters in Fo3.

-Much, much better dialog. This cannot be overstated. Being forced to tell Three Dog "I want to find my daddy please!" in Fo3 was just ridiculous... and that conversation was one of the better ones in the game.

-Economy, agriculture, and industry are all present and accounted for. A world with an explanation for how the population continues to survive and grow, amazing! Obsidian actually took the time to explain how the city gets food and electricity, and for this I give them more major props.

-Gambling is awesome. Granted, luck makes it just an easy way to get over 100,000 caps, but it's still a blast and a huge advantage over Fo3. Though I would have appreciated some dice games (High roller suite? What did I high roll? There are NO DICE!!!), maybe they'll add that in DLC.

-Moral ambiguity, god I love it. It sure is nice to actually have to give a moment of thought to what the right thing to do in a situation is, instead of having the straight good and bwah-ha-ha ebil choices. No spoilers, but every faction is something that feels human and believable. Every faction has motives for what they do and a philosophy to justify it. And I like that even if you take the 'good' side, some of the missions still (might) make you feel a bit dirty.

-No more bobbleheads. Some might love them, but I found them to be an extremely annoying immersion breaker in what is supposed to be an rpg and a shooter. Bobbleheads don't belong in either genre. Good riddance. Implants do the same thing, but are actually believable within the setting.


*Braun, your dad, President Eden, Elder Lyons and Three Dog being the only exceptions that come to mind. Maybe Amata, too.


Edit: Bumping the thread to add refutations of more arguments that have cropped up to justify the ridiculous claim that Fallout 3 is better than New Vegas. Seemed like a better idea than creating a whole new thread.

First, I've seen the claim that Fallout 3 had a lot more to explore... yeah, no it didn't. It had fewer locations. I think what you're looking for, if you accept that argument, is a vast empty space full of cut-and-paste dungeons filled with the same things you've already seen twenty times. Is that seriously where a game developer should be devoting resources, towards making a huge, vast, empty world full of nothing to do but wander aimlessly shooting mutants, raiders, and the occasional Enclave trooper? I want a large world, too, but not at the cost of it being devoid of any serious content.

Second, I saw a couple people actually saying the Fallout 3 story is better, with a more personal story and more drive to continue turning the page to find out what happens next. I don't even know how to begin replying to something like that. I feel like I'm being asked to explain why Transformers 2 isn't a good film... if you don't know already, there just isn't much I can do to explain why that just plain isn't the case.

This isn't just a matter of opinion, as so many people like to claim when trying to defend something awful like the Star Wars prequels. A story can be objectively bad, and Fallout 3 had a story that was really, really poorly done. The writing lacked any subtlety, with a clearly defined good and a clearly defined evil, and neither side was remotely believable. I've mentioned this above, but it bears repeating because it's just such a glaring flaw. The plot holes and "...wtf?" moments in Fallout 3 are so numerous that I don't even think I should have to cite examples, but I will anyways:
-Why would Eden trust an enemy with the sole means of accomplishing his grand, evil master plan? Shouldn't a super computer be able to know immediately if the person is going to do as requested?
-How the hell do the kids in Little Lamplight have a population if they have no population growth? They kick people out before they are capable of (realistic) reproduction, they wouldn't last more than one generation.
-Why didn't the Enclave just neutralize the Brotherhood with an orbital strike the second they had them on the ropes? Seriously epic fail here. I would applaud this choice if they explained, for example, that the remaining Enclave wanted a ceasefire and didn't want to wantonly destroy another major faction.. but sadly, that isn't the case. Bethesda can't give the Enclave any humanity, that would be outrageous! So apparently the Enclave, in addition to mustache twirling ebilness, has a severe case of lethal stupidity.

I know you are completely out of your mind!

The strip has all of 3 people walking around when get into it from Freeside. That feels alive?
There is one guy playing cards at the Tops - that is alive?

The bowling alley in your local neighborhood, the one that closed down in 1992, is more alive than the New Vegas strip.

I counted a lot more than three NCR people, both outside Gomorrah and especially in the second part of the strip. There were three NCR girls stripping in the Ultra-Luxe fountain, alone.

Not to mention the strippers, the securitrons, the vendor lady, the comedian, and the bitter rancher and his wife. Fail argument fails.

I don't know what version of the game you were playing but there was certainly not 3 NPCs within view of entering the strip. I found a lot more than 3 NPCs on the strip within view. Your argument is fail, not the strip.

-Agreed, though the Strip could still have a bit more life to it. It's much better than any settlement in Fallout 3 though. As are all the other settlements in New Vegas.

-Very much agreed. Fallout 3 barely had any memorable characters except for the ones that annoyed the hell out of you (Three Dog, Moira Brown) and that's not really a good reason to remember a character by. I mean there's big characters like Mr. House and the like, and there's even minor characters like No-Bark Noonan or even The Lonesome Drifter. The list seems to go on and on and I still haven't even gotten that far in the game yet.

-Agreed. The dialogue actually has that old "Fallout charm" to it. Almost every line sounds like something you might say depending on what type of person you are. Not to mention there are just some lines of dialogue that are just plain funny. Another thing that the previous Fallouts had and Fallout 3 didn't.

-I like this too. Much better than Fallout 3's and even Oblivion's conundrums of having a very small amount of small farms and somehow feeding an entire population with them.

-No doubt about that. :goodjob:

-Agreed X1000. This is something Fallout 3 was surely lacking and was the main reason why Fallout 3 didn't really feel like a Fallout game. Too many of the choices were straight black and white. New Vegas, on the other hand, rarely seems to have that. Most good choices have a slight negative and even negative choices have a slight positive and even the neutral choices have a bit of each. It's just amazing.

-Didn't really bother me much on this. I found collecting them to be a great way to pass the time. But now we have snow globes for that.

Wow.. I saw a hole host of characters when I entered the strip first time. Three strippers, a bunch of drunk NCR soldiers, a NCR mp trying to shape them up, a shady trader, a quest character and at least three robot cops.

First of all let me commend you for the ballsy move, so many people on this forum think that this game is trash (but then again, they wouldnt have any motivation to come here if they didnt want to complain). Second of all, let me tell you that I completely agree with every single thing you said.

I have played both games completely now, meaning discovered every location, did every quest, finished most endings (not in new vegas), and I believe I have a pretty good understanding of how both games work. It seems to me like a majority of the people who are complaining on this forum have one of the following issues. 1) There the type of person who cant quite grasp whats right and wrong, so they think everything is worthy of complaining about. 2) Jumping on the band wagon of number 1, 3) Their stupidity gets the best of them, have some "issue" (which isnt an issue) with the game, come on here and once again, jump onto band wagon number 1.

I have no reason to complain about the game and in fact I love it. Even if some minor issues come across my path the plot, characters, and game experience is far better then any of the past.


So trust me, anyone who is sitting here nit-picking your post is part of group 1, 2, or 3 listed above, and in the end none of them know what they are talking about.

Thanks for the support! Was hoping to get some nay-sayers to come and discuss the game, but maybe the nay-sayers don't like to be questioned. :sadvaultboy:




Yeah, the game isn't perfect, and I could do a list of problems I have with it. But I won't, it seems like I'd just be jumping on a bandwagon and ignoring how awesome the total package of New Vegas is.

Well put Mr. Pandabearparade.

I'm glad there's folks out there who understand that this game is awesome. And whaddyaknow, they're intelligent and well-spoken.

"this dum game is stupid! i can't explore and do evrytying from the very begining!"

haha, this made me laugh.

In their defense; it's all up to opinion.

Also; even on this forum the far majority seem to at least like New Vegas.

I agree. The folks took the time saved on not having to create the 3d FO universe and put it into a more layered experience overall. I'm enjoying the heck out of the game because of the reasons you mentioned.

There are only two things I can think of after 60h hours of play:

Like others have mentioned, I don't like the invisible barriers.

I'm not happy with the Deathclaws new status as ammo sponge (but understand they now match their legendary status established in FO3.)

I'm hoping expansions focus on the gambling aspects of New Vegas like variations of poker, craps, etc. I'm certain I saw a chance wheel in a promotional video that had guns attached to it but haven't seen it in game.

Looking at how the Northern and Southern area of the strip was designed it looked like it will be easy to make some DLC content for it... who knows, maybe if you finish NCR, Leagon, or Mr. Houses ending it might impact the downtown strip... that would be awesome. That and add in the fact that from the ending your chosen faction will have to expand regardless, I have high hopes for DLC.

I like New Vegas a thousand times better than F3 for one reason, replayability. In F3, the actual difference between characters was just in how you killed people. Now, different playstyles not only change how you kill people, different playstyles will have drastically different opportunities through dialogue and skill checks. There is absolutely no way for you to see everything the game has to offer without playing it through multiple times with different styles.

Obsidian has made it clear (sadly) that there will be no Broken Steel style extension, so any DLC has to be parallel to the main game. Though I would enjoy an extension of the strip with a few more casinos, more games, more quests... sounds awesome.

That has some truth in it, and it is also the reason why all those pointless buildings were so important to it. Even so, i'm looking forward to the NVInteriors mod

I greatly prefer NV to FO3. :shrug:

I was playing FO2 just a while ago and NV really feels like the best /closest possible sequel to FO2 that we can expect a modern developer to be able to approach; So I am happy with it, and pleased with the new features I have so far found in the GECK... Makes be think of added potential through mods.

I was impressed with this game long before I pushed my PC out of Greensprings.

That doesn't mean it can do no wrong, or hasn't some serious 'stupid' in it. (Just walk into the casino at Primm and look around on the floor... There are old cigs on the ground, but if you pick two up, the entire casino population will draw guns and come running [gunz blazing] even from across to the other side of the building ~its stupid, bordering on psychotic lunacy).

Looking at how the Northern and Southern area of the strip was designed it looked like it will be easy to make some DLC content for it... who knows, maybe if you finish NCR, Leagon, or Mr. Houses ending it might impact the downtown strip... that would be awesome. That and add in the fact that from the ending your chosen faction will have to expand regardless, I have high hopes for DLC.

/bump

But new vegas doesn't have a large world in comparison to fallout 3. Fallout 3's locations were bigger and you could actually go INSIDE them, instead of half of them being boarded up and the other half being a shack of 4 by 4.

Er.. are you talking about before or after mods? Most of the buildings you see in Fallout 3 are boarded up too, at least to the same extent as New Vegas. But I honestly don't really think that New Vegas has less exploring space, regardless.

Okay before I start let me just say that I love New Vegas

but... anyway

- Yes the world does feel more alive. No the Strip is not that fun you've got casinoes yes but gambling is not that fun imo, i've done it twice in my whole 40 hour playthrough and all I can say is I won't miss it if it's not in FO4

- Jericho, Fawkes, Mana, Nathan, Crowley, Tenpenny, Billy Creel, Colin Moriaty, Pinkerton, Harkness etc. The list goes on granted you might not be able to find out more about there past but if I was them I wouldn't go sharing something like that with a complete stranger, sure followers didn't have as much depth as F:NV but they didn't piss me off with their 'I just decided to leave my family for no good reason in the hopes someone would let me tag along' crap I much preferred Jericho with his 'I'm an ex-raider that's all you need to know'

- No arguments here

- once again no arguments

- as i've said before I really couldn't careless about the gambling aspect

- That's really opinion I prefer not to have to feel sick in the stomach when I play a game no matter what I do but :shrug:

- Never bothered for bobbleheads and nor will I bother with snow globes, although i'd take bobbleheads over implants. It's a lot more challenging having to find the bobble heads than just going to a doctor 'I feel like being stronger today' granted this is offset by the endurance thing but still :shrug:

- The backstories aren't as in depth no. However to say there are only that many actual 'characters' is odd. Fawkes' story not very in depth? Harkenss being an *spoiler* android didn't shock you? finding out where Pinkerton lived and that he was the foudner of Rivet city no good? No there is plenty of memorable characters in FO3

- lol saying F:NV has more to explore is wrong and that's fact. It may have had more map markers yes but so many of them were nothing more than a fast travel location. Devils Gullet, That race track, some basin thing, a burnt out house, oh yeah I had so much fun in my three seconds of looking at them -.- ,

- Because F:NV had no copy and paste what so ever I had a lot more fun exploring the capital wasteland than the Mojave desert

- yes the story is no where near as good as F:NV's I will agree, but it also has some flaws like you point out in the FO3 MQ albeit not as many

- Why would Ceasar just let me waltz into his camp after i'd been killing hundreds of them? you may say it's for the story but then I can use that argument for Eden letting you go with the vial
- Why would a doctor spend so much time on a complete stranger for free then let him waltz out with one of the most technolgically advanced 'hand-held' devices without wanting anything for free?
- Because the Enclave were shown to be nice guys in FO2 weren't they

just my two cents and i'm more likey to paint a target on my back by saying these things then you ever were

Something you are missing here is that it's a matter of opinion.

I personally thought Fallout New vegas was superior to fallout 3, but i disliked the lack of a depressing atmosphere. The game (for me) just didn't seem to be as depressing as fallout 3's setting.

That being said Fallout new vegas still owns fallout 3.

Edit: I apologize if this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I'm typing this while having been up for about 19 hours.

I found Fallout 3 much more depressing, too. Horribly bad dialogue and a story that would get a middle schooler an F in creative writing really are buzzkills. If you mean the story was depressing, though, I'd have to differ. Being a boyscout and saving the poor people of the wasteland (all 20 of them) from the ebil Enclave and the super mutants isn't depressing. It is boring, though.

Compare that to.. well, not going to spoil anything, but a couple of the followers you get are depressing as all hell as you learn more and more about them.

In my opinion, New Vegas' story is objectively bad.