New Vegas looks like it was made for Xbox for a quick profit : Fallout: New Vegas

» Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:35 pm

Ok, I'll start off by saying I didn't read the rest of the posts, being away from New Vegas this long is killing me as it is. But anyway, it might seem like the PC port was an afterthought because of this: I vaguely remember hearing from someone at Bethesda in a blog or something, that Oblivion was developed for the Xbox and PC simultaneously with the Xbox being the lead project, this is why many people on the PC complained that the controls seemed a bit less intuitive than its console counterpart. It was done this way because of the excellent Xbox 1 sales of Morrowind (if i remember right). Fallout 3 was then made by the same people, probably with a similar outlook, so they might have used the same process (it sure seems like it). Now, New Vegas was made by a different team, but from what I've seen, it seems to have been made directly on top of Fallout 3 (not necessarily like a mod would be, but probably using a good bit of the original code, etc.) and so even if they didn't give the 360 their main focus, it would still be built on a platform meant for that console. Maybe that's where it comes from.

» Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:26 pm

I totally disagree though.....just my op of course....Im not sure but i read somewhere that the reason why you cant join xbox and pc's together on Multiplayer FPS games is due to the fact that keyboard/mouse gamers would decimate the controller players...now of course there are controller users that would make this statement untrue, but i think they would be the minority.

My point being that although the keyboard/mouse was not "made" for gaming, it can be a more precise tool then an xbox controller...but whatever...play the came with whatever you want to..... :foodndrink:

you're right, I've read the same thing, I believe it was about halo because they were the ones who tried to make the MP for that cross platform and the pc gamers stomped the console gamers.

The reasons though were not related to the efficiency of the controllers. The problem is that a mouse allows you to instantly select any point on a screen. You can be aiming at one spot and instantly aim at something 180 degrees away without having to aim at the points in between. This isn't so much "aiming" it's just selecting something on the screen which is a 2 dimensional concept. where as the axis is a 3 dimensional system that fits better with the current generation of games. That's why controller is superior. Yes personal taste is what you like more, but one of these devices is actually superior, it's just not something everyone is used to.

And actually the article about halo trying cross platform MP went on further to say that the problem wasn't so much that pc gamers weren't required to operate in the 3d environment or have realistic constraints like turning speed (which a game should have, you shouldn't be able to aim at a point in front of you, then instantly aim at a point behind you) it was because pc gamers found a file they could modify one line and turn of textures so the whole game was playing with just wire frames for them and they could see where everyone on the map was through walls. That's why the pc gamers where stomping and the cross platform was abandoned they said. pc gamers would find ways to mod for advantages that console gamers couldn't achieve.

» Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:36 pm

Who said everyone will "forget this game ever existed"? Fallout 3 was amazing, I truly enjoyed it. New Vegas does not do it justice as a sequel. It should have been a $19 expansion pack. And as for controller vs keyboard/mouse, to each his own. However, for a full priced PC game, I would expect it to work properly on a PC. This game wouldn't even pass the Microsoft "Games for Windows" requirements.

And guess what, Fallout 3 used the Oblivion engine. And so does New Vegas. That engine is so old now, how can it possibly be so buggy?

It does work properly on a PC. The controls are the same as Fallout 3's. Verbatim.

I have no idea what you're talking about regarding bugginess, as this game runs beautifully for me.

The world is huge, there are a ton of new additions to the game - this is way too big a project to be an expansion.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:02 am

uhhh... you got it backwards, gamesas titles are primarily made for PC and are then ported for consoles. it is true that the console versions of the games sell more copies but the PC titles allways have improved graphics, settings and content*. and the support lasts longer.

*= stuff like construction set and the Geck.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:05 am

Get the 360 version then, probably does run better on that console, either that or be patient and wait for the patches.

It kinda does. Mine is an older 360 but some stuff is a little laggy. Like when there is a lot of fire and stuff going on the system goes wacky. Probaly time for an upgrade to the new 360.

» Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:42 pm

this game would be a lot better than FO3 if it werent for the glitches.

But I am 12 hrs in and not even a freeze yet, so to me it is better than FO3. I just hope they fix that save game glitch before I run into it.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:14 am

Who said everyone will "forget this game ever existed"? Fallout 3 was amazing, I truly enjoyed it. New Vegas does not do it justice as a sequel. It should have been a $19 expansion pack. And as for controller vs keyboard/mouse, to each his own. However, for a full priced PC game, I would expect it to work properly on a PC. This game wouldn't even pass the Microsoft "Games for Windows" requirements.

And guess what, Fallout 3 used the Oblivion engine. And so does New Vegas. That engine is so old now, how can it possibly be so buggy?

NV is not a sequel, its been said a hundred times but I'll clearify it just once more. NV is a stand alone title, just like fallout tactics was not called fallout 3 and was not even considered a sequel at all. FO:NV uses the same engine and most of the same textures so that they could make a game that had more story and more weapons and such, the bugs that are being screamed about on this forum will be fixed and mostly forgotten four months from now. (probably so don't bug me about it if I am wrong 4 months from now)

and as far as the engine being so old? if I had a kid when oblivion came out he'd be four now, and still wearing diapers. its true that tech for game development has been pretty fast but four years by any standard is not that old.

» Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:38 pm

Who said everyone will "forget this game ever existed"? Fallout 3 was amazing, I truly enjoyed it. New Vegas does not do it justice as a sequel. It should have been a $19 expansion pack. And as for controller vs keyboard/mouse, to each his own. However, for a full priced PC game, I would expect it to work properly on a PC. This game wouldn't even pass the Microsoft "Games for Windows" requirements.

And guess what, Fallout 3 used the Oblivion engine. And so does New Vegas. That engine is so old now, how can it possibly be so buggy?

The gamebryo engine has always been buggy.

How was FO3 amazing? The gameplay is about the same as NV and the story was vastly inferior. In fact, FO3's story was a rehash of FO1 and 2's story, except it wasn't as well written.

As for DX10 and 11 support. There are only 12 games that support DX11 and most people don't have DX11 capable video cards so I don't know why you'd complain about that. As for DX10, the improvement over DX9 does not even come close to justifying the high resource cost. The difference is not that huge:

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6182140/index.html

I don't remember Fallout 3, or even Oblivion being so buggy on the PC. However, Oblivion had a terrible interface for the PC, so Fallout 3 was actually improved for the PC interface. So why didn't they evolve from Fallout 3? It looks like they took just wrote the game straight from the Oblivion engine.

You don't remember because you're nostalgic. It's like all those people who reminisce about how great the 50's were but they conveniently forget all the racism and sixism.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:53 am

It kinda does. Mine is an older 360 but some stuff is a little laggy. Like when there is a lot of fire and stuff going on the system goes wacky. Probaly time for an upgrade to the new 360.

The new Xbox is the same as the old one, just differnet case and an inbuilt Wi-Fi. (in my understanding, i'm a PC and PS3 user).

And i have to say keyboard and mouse ar far superior to controllers in FPS (styled) games, i never survived the final fight in Killzone 2, but i did finish Plutonia experiment on ultra-violence (not including the secret levels

)

Sad to hear the UI is apparently the same as in Fallout 3, but i'm sure Darn will work his UI magic for this game too :nod:

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:38 am

How was FO3 amazing? The gameplay is about the same as NV and the story was vastly inferior. In fact, FO3's story was a rehash of FO1 and 2's story, except it wasn't as well written.

? I don't think that just because the enclave was involved wiht the main story that makes it a rehash. the endings have nothing to do with each other and the whole first half is devoted to looking for your father.

Yeah, there were some silmularities (more than a few charecters appearing from previous FO) but that was to keep the fanatics from screaming the game was untrue to the series.

» Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:32 pm

The reasons though were not related to the efficiency of the controllers. The problem is that a mouse allows you to instantly select any point on a screen. You can be aiming at one spot and instantly aim at something 180 degrees away without having to aim at the points in between. This isn't so much "aiming" it's just selecting something on the screen which is a 2 dimensional concept. where as the axis is a 3 dimensional system that fits better with the current generation of games. That's why controller is superior. Yes personal taste is what you like more, but one of these devices is actually superior, it's just not something everyone is used to.

I so disagree but respect your right to your opinion. For the exact reason you state the mouse is by far the better option in FPS style games. The controller is so clunky in comparison. (As mentioned, it's why PC players do not play against Xboxers. Unfair advantage so no competition.)

How is one aiming and the other not? This statement confuses me. They both do the same thing, just one does it more quickly. :confused:

Personally I think the controller is better than a KB/M for racing/skateboarding/platforming type games but in FPSs nothing can compare to KB/M.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:32 am

I believe NV was created to simply ride the Fallout 3 money train. The same old story, the same old mechanics, the same graphics and everything.

I can understand you on one thing hear. They have used the same mechanics, but the fact you have said the same old story is misunderstanding. Fallout: New Vegas has a complete different story so i cannot see why your saying its the "same old story" when it clearly isn't.

» Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:00 pm

its great, but buggy. im really afraid my save file will corrupt. Patch should be out before the end of the weekend, hopefully. I guess they shouldnt rush the patch too much or get ready to patch twice, already rushed game, but people will throw this game away if these bugs are not fixed, especially the save bug.

What save bug?

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:12 am

This thread is pure madness.

The game was Developed on PC's, so the first version of it is For the PC because of that fact. It is then ported to the 360 and PS/3.

And of COURSE the game companies develop these games to make money! Isn't that the entire point of running a business? These happen to make video games yes, but they are no different than any other company in America - they have a plan, the try to put out good product and make money while doing it.

Why am I not in Vegas? I'm out here..

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:48 am

I believe NV was created to simply ride the Fallout 3 money train. The same old story, the same old mechanics, the same graphics and everything.

You've never heard of side-games?

This is also what happened with The Sims or GTA IV.

...oh. Wait, what?

It was probably meant to be a generic Xbox game to make a quick buck, until someone decided to make it a major release.

...seriously? Bethesda/Obsidian aren't the kind to do cheap knock-offs.

The PC version is an obviously bad Xbox to PC port that was written very quickly.

What, because it's slightly buggier/runs slower on your five-year-old graphics card/runs slower on your single-core CPU? Suuuuuure. Next thing you'll be telling me that Fallout 3 was a crappy port, too, because the interface svcked! You do realise they can't cater to every potential combination of hardware in a PC, right?

*The graphics engine is DirectX 9, while modern games are at least DX10, if not DX11. Obviously this was done because the XBOX 360 only supports DX9, and they didn't bother to spend any time upgrading the PC engine to DX11, or at least adding some DX11 effects to the existing engine (like the latest Stalker game).

Sorry, but that's [censored]. The graphics engine is DX9 because the game is based on Fallout 3's engine. Not only is it non-trivial to port an existing game to DX10/DX11 and use its features, but there's also the fact that the 360 doesn't exactly use normal DirectX in the first place! Plus, the game is also a PS3 game - are you telling me you expected them to add new graphical features to a game that was only two years old while selling it for multiple platforms, all of which use different graphical engines? Easy, huh? Well, adding effects takes time! Furthermore, it takes testing! Evidently, they were taxed quite a bit by testing what they already had, or else New Vegas wouldn't be so (allegedly) buggy!

*The user interface was created for controllers. Why is the #2 limited to ammo switching? Because it's a button on the controller. I can't press ESC to exit screens, like VATS or a dialog, because a controller has no ESC button.
The worst offender is the Pip-boy. It's mapped to 3 keys, F1-F3. Come on, there should be a key for each Pip-boy screen so I don't have to keep navigating the stupid thing in the middle of a battle. The "M" key should open the map, the "I" key should open my items screen, "L" for flashlight, etc etc. It reminds me of Oblivion. Hasn't Bethesda learned anything?

Valid complaint.

*The bugs are so obvious that anyone can see them after a couple hours of playing. Seems like they decided to do minimal PC testing and patch it later.

Well, then - luckily for us, they can distribute updates through Steam.

*The mouse in the game menu is jerky and too fast. With a controller you just hit up/down, so they had to add a mouse function in there somehow. There are mouse problems in other screens, like the workbench or Pip-boy. Also, alt-tabbing out of the game causes my mouse cursor to disappear completely.

Isn't that what the "mouse acceleration fix" is for?

I can go on, but you get the point. They clearly they took the lowest common denominator and stuck with it. Fallout New Vegas has the quality I'd expect from DLC or an expansion pack. I think this game was released to keep riding the Fallout 3 money train, with minimal expense and maximum profit.

New Vegas might as well be an expansion pack, the way you all keep going on about it. Considering the game was created within the space of a year or two, it's a wonder they managed to make the Mojave as large as it is. In conclusion...
I'd hate to see you play any of the Grand Theft Auto games before 4.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:26 am

For the record, OP...... Fallout: New Vegas, from the beginning was designed and announced to be "Let's see what Obsidian can do with the Fallout 3 engine."

So all these "OMG! It's got the same engine as FO3! :banghead: :brokencomputer:" reactions are just misinformed. We've known it would be like this for years.

FO:NV isn't Fallout 4, and was never intended to be.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:06 am

In conclusion...
I'd hate to see you play any of the Grand Theft Auto games before 4.

No, my point was regarding the multiple GTA IV games that have been released as full games, yet they all use the same old engine and mechanics. It's more of the same because they know people like you will pee their pants when they announce the next GTA: Detroit or whatever.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:45 am

? I don't think that just because the enclave was involved wiht the main story that makes it a rehash. the endings have nothing to do with each other and the whole first half is devoted to looking for your father.

Yeah, there were some silmularities (more than a few charecters appearing from previous FO) but that was to keep the fanatics from screaming the game was untrue to the series.

Also, NV's dialogues and characters are astronomically better then F3.

Boone > Jericho

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:23 am

Sorry op, looks like you are alone here.

This is THE best game I have played all year, likely the BEST game I have played since I played um, oh well Ill get back to you on that,

The is the first game I can remember playing for HOURS on end and I still want to do that "one more thing" or "one more quest" or "one more location"

I think the last game I played like that was NWN 2, and maybe ~~Oblivion~~. Morrowind!!! there, thats it! Morrowind was the last game I that found it hard to put down.

I think I racked up well over 500 hours on Morrowind, at least 10 times through, and almost every time I found something new.

I already have 33+ hours on N.V and I can see me playing on it at least 50-70 hours on my first time, and two to three more times before I start modding it.

I figure I will (or should) get close to 300 before I can mod it.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:59 am

? I don't think that just because the enclave was involved wiht the main story that makes it a rehash. the endings have nothing to do with each other and the whole first half is devoted to looking for your father.

Yeah, there were some silmularities (more than a few charecters appearing from previous FO) but that was to keep the fanatics from screaming the game was untrue to the series.

It was mash-up.

FO3 was about providing drinking water for the people of the Capital Wasteland.
FO1's story started about securing drinking water for the people of your Vault.

FO3 had the Enclave president trying to contaminate the drinking water with a FEV derived toxin to kill off all irradiated living beings.
FO2's story was revealed to be about an Enclave president who was going to use a FEV derived toxin to kill all irradiated living beings.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:30 am

consoles sell more games that is why they don't have special versions for pc users. it doesn't make much sense to make a really cool game that most gamers can't play. besides in a few years, they will come up with newer and improved consoles.

the graphics for fallout 3 on the console looks fine to me. can't wait until the new consoles come out.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:56 am

No, my point was regarding the multiple GTA IV games that have been released as full games, yet they all use the same old engine and mechanics. It's more of the same because they know people like you will pee their pants when they announce the next GTA: Detroit or whatever.

I think you're making an arbitrary definition here.

You don't play an engine and mechanics. You play content.

If a title is released that has the scope of content worthy of being called a full title, it's a full title.

If you're going to substantiate the complaint you're making against either Fallout or GTA IV, it's going to need to be based on the scope of the game. "This game is so small, it should have been an expansion," is a complaint consistent with what you're saying. "This game has the same engine; it should have been an expansion," is not.

» Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:16 pm

The gamebryo engine has always been buggy.

How was FO3 amazing? The gameplay is about the same as NV and the story was vastly inferior. In fact, FO3's story was a rehash of FO1 and 2's story, except it wasn't as well written.

You don't remember because you're nostalgic. It's like all those people who reminisce about how great the 50's were but they conveniently forget all the racism and sixism.

Finally someone who I feel has some sense, I don't see this amazing game people hark about so much. infact the only thing that made FO3 worthwhile was its mods, its story was crap so was the dialog and the gameplay was poor in comparison to other games of its field and similar no one I've seen talking on these forums and across the internet ever elaborates on what makes that game so *great* or the best they've ever played. NV has some improvements and I look forward to playing it, I hear alot about how many quests you get flooded with and the dialog oh and a plus so far I haven't heard any ANY duplicate voices in the vids I've watched so far. so that has some joy for me.

FO3 was meh, I'm happy in some senses it didnt take itself seriously what worries me is the lack of testimony for NV's wasteland/desert survival bit, especially during hardcoe mode.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:09 pm

Well, unfortunately Console games and the dumb masses are what most game companies target. Ps3 and 360 are 4 + year old hardware, and games today are made just to run on them. PC is at DX 11, and we are stuck with running outdated engines or EPIC's crappy " Mostoverrated engine ever" UNREAL engine. I have not had to upgrade my PC in years, as nothing out even makes it work hard anymore.

Crysis is 3 years old and is still the best looking game on the market. I like consoles, but sadly because their popularty has blossomed, we are having almost no progress on the tech front. PC has so much potential to have such better graphics and immersion, but most devs just rather take the easy way out and easy money.

Moral of the story? Blame consoles and PC pirates for killing the PC platform.

As a game though NV blows away fo3 in every way, its more an RPG then 3 ever was.

» Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:13 am

I believe NV was created to simply ride the Fallout 3 money train. The same old story, the same old mechanics, the same graphics and everything. This is also what happened with The Sims or GTA IV. It was probably meant to be a generic Xbox game to make a quick buck, until someone decided to make it a major release. The PC version is an obviously bad Xbox to PC port that was written very quickly.

*The graphics engine is DirectX 9, while modern games are at least DX10, if not DX11. Obviously this was done because the XBOX 360 only supports DX9, and they didn't bother to spend any time upgrading the PC engine to DX11, or at least adding some DX11 effects to the existing engine (like the latest Stalker game).

*The user interface was created for controllers. Why is the #2 limited to ammo switching? Because it's a button on the controller. I can't press ESC to exit screens, like VATS or a dialog, because a controller has no ESC button.
The worst offender is the Pip-boy. It's mapped to 3 keys, F1-F3. Come on, there should be a key for each Pip-boy screen so I don't have to keep navigating the stupid thing in the middle of a battle. The "M" key should open the map, the "I" key should open my items screen, "L" for flashlight, etc etc. It reminds me of Oblivion. Hasn't Bethesda learned anything?

*The bugs are so obvious that anyone can see them after a couple hours of playing. Seems like they decided to do minimal PC testing and patch it later.

*The mouse in the game menu is jerky and too fast. With a controller you just hit up/down, so they had to add a mouse function in there somehow. There are mouse problems in other screens, like the workbench or Pip-boy. Also, alt-tabbing out of the game causes my mouse cursor to disappear completely.

I can go on, but you get the point. They clearly they took the lowest common denominator and stuck with it. Fallout New Vegas has the quality I'd expect from DLC or an expansion pack. I think this game was released to keep riding the Fallout 3 money train, with minimal expense and maximum profit.

I expect to see a price drop soon, followed by an announcement about Fallout 4 with hope we'll forget about New Vegas. You will NOT have my pre-order money for Fallout 4 until I read the reviews and forums

Hey man,