Since there's no New Vegas mod forum yet, I'm posting this here...

I was looking at Mezmorelda's mod interoperability effort, and it got me thinking, maybe an effort should be started to set some sort of rules for making mods for New Vegas and releasing them to the public. It is not going to solve all mod incompatibilities, but it can greatly minimize them, and those modders who follow the rules can state so in their mods.

Simple things like:
* Each modder has a 4-5 digit/letter tag used at the beginning of every new obejct ID, quest name, etc
* All mods go in a directory named after the tag (ex: meshes/abc12mods/mod1, textures/abc12mods/mod1)
* No vanilla assets are modified, all modifications are added. Ex. if you re-texture an outfit, you make a new object ID and therefore a new outfit, rather than merely replacing the vanilla asset's texture.
* All items added to vanilla containers are added through scripts, rather than directly in the GECK.

What do you guys think?

Well good luck with that. It's going to be pretty much impossible to get everyone to use a standardized system like that.

Have to agree. I won't be playing the game at all because of steam. But even I did I cannot fathom getting everyone together under one umbrella. We have our camps as it is and then more and more people mod every day. Nice idea, but won't happen. =)

With rules, it doesn't sound fun to mod anymore. I bet a "share your modding tips" type of thread will be better received and may get some people to change a few things they do with modding.


I would personally break this rule cause unless a script is written out for me to use, I wouldn't know where to start. So yes, I would have less of a headache to just add the item directly in the G.E.C.K.
[edit] I never use vanilla containers anyways, I always give mine a new ID, but all the same, you get what I mean

I do most of this already. Only thing I woudn't follow is "No vanilla assets are modified". I tend to make a lot of custom tweaks to many things.

What's with Steam that causes you to not play the game?

gothemasticator

The fact that steam MUST run in order for the game to run. Its a needless background program. At least thats what I'm hearing from most people. Personally its not that big a deal to me, but I can understand how it can be a problem to others.

I could be a bit behind on things, but I have a Steam installation of FO3, and if I launch via FOMM (or a link to Fallout.exe) Steam never enters the picture. Is New Vegas going to be any different?

Big bad Bethesda, how dare they want to pay for the costs of making the game :violin:

I think steam discussions are off topic here. I am annoyed about these 'I am a steam fan boy and the whole world should use it (please send me money and free games for the free advertisemant oh great steam!)' and 'I am a steam hater the whole world should be perfect!' attitudes on this forum in the meantime.
If someone needs an free advertisemant platform this particular one should look elsewhere.

Back on topic:
I think "share your modding tips" is the best solution to get better modding standards and less conflicts. Sometimes you have to break 'the rule' to get an desired effect but if it is good documented other modder can deal with it.

I am very grateful that Bethseda left a lot of comments in their scripts and I do the same in my own mods so that other can see how it was made.

Indeed. I'm no modder, but I am somewhat of a programmer, and while "You must code like this:" saps my enthusiasm, reading other people's coding conventions to improve my own is something I enjoy. It could well be the same here. Make a thread, hopefully get it stickied, where experienced modders can share how they make life easier for themselves, both by reducing compatibility issues and reducing annoyances. Hopefully any budding new modder can read through it and get a good idea of how to do it "right", without being told "This is how you do it, disagree and you aren't getting in".

Tips to make stuff more easily compatible with each other is nice (like adding things to a vanilla merchant container through script to avoid conflicts with other mods adding things), but a full set of rules that people say you must follow is rather off-putting.

If the mod is supposed to be adding an outfit, not replacing the default, this is common sense.

I think most people will already use a letter tag system. It's just easier to find things if you do. But ever since Oblivion we have FormIDs so most of the times there are no conflicts when two items use the same EditorID anyway.

Back off topic to address the steam issue - you can set steam to play in offline mode and so it is not required to run while you play. Only exception is if your playing online and I've not heard that NV will be multiplayer.

There and I'm not even going to tell you if I like steam.

http://geck.gamesas.com/index.php/Adding_items_to_vendors

Basic concept, as I understand it is that you create a single-run script that runs once and adds the items to the vendor's container. Which is the same concept that you'd use to add items to any vanilla container in the game.

Staying on topic, I have a deeply personal interest in the concept of converting mods from Fallout3 to New Vegas because my own work is still a year from completion and Fallout3 will soon be shelved on everyone's PC's in favor of New Vegas. That said I have already done some research into this concept and learned a few things:

1. I have studied each of the trailers, demos and intros shown to us thus far and have identified over 100 models/textures that are from Fallout3 - primarily common objects and kit-pieces, stuff like trash cans, road pieces, sidewalk, some building sets. I did this because I wanted to see how much of my mod I would have to take out/loose because it wasn't ported over to New Vegas.

The good news is that it seems as though Alot of common content was brought over, and this was a brilliant move on their part IMHO - it allowed Obsidian to focus all their time on making custom/thematic content for New Vegas without having to worry about all the common and background objects that take so much time. This is fantastic for us in the modding world because it makes is Possible to convert mods as long as the only objects copied over are those present in both games.

2. I spoke with Elminster and a few others about this, and everyone's collective belief is that Obsidian got the GECK and the Fallout3 content, deleted all of the cells save for a few test cells, all of the Fallout3 NPCs and any content that Wouldn't be present in New Vegas because its too east coast specific. I'm sure they deleted other things too. If this assumption is true, it means that even the FromID's of the common objects may have been kept the same (there would be no reason to change them), and that would make conversion that much more realistic - but everyone agrees that we won't know for sure until we get the game and GECK and see just how much was changed.

3. For certain we know that almost all Fallout3 mods won't run out of the box, as the Fallout3.ESM and DLC masters will be gone, replaced by a NewVegas.ESM (or similarly named file). So a conversion of some kind will be essential, though again we just don't know for sure until the event.

At this point I have alot of hope that at least 50% of the content in my own work will be ported over (I used alot of common objects and kits sets along with my own content which ports over anyway). From there we can flesh out what was lost in much less time then it would take to re-create the cells. I also suspect that it will not be too-difficult to port over many of the game immersion mods, as many of the game settings will still be the same (with new ones to incorporate), and all of the custom models we made ourselves we can move without worry.

In the meantime all we can do is prepare for the day and try not to go insane with anticipation.

Miax

It's definitely going to be interesting to see!

Too much structure and you won't get converts. But I'd be interested in information on how to avoid possible conflicts (most of which I already know from the various wikis, but it never hurts to review). More of an advice thread instead of a "thou shalt not" thread.

I don't even know if my mods will apply in the new world of NV. First, we have to get the game. Second, we'll need GECK "NV" to be released. Then I'll have to sit down and see whether I want to tweak things, like traps that aren't deadly enough. One of the reasons I waited so long to mod for Fallout 3 is that I didn't want to ruin the exploration aspect for my own personal play.

See, this is great information to know when someone has to implement this into their mod. I can understand what a script is doing when I read them (for the most part) but if I had to sit down and create one, well I would have better luck building Rome in 1 day

@ Everyone: Maybe we can go ahead and turn this topic around and start adding our tips for anyone that is already working on mods for FOV.

Here is my biggest tip:
When you are making a mod, be sure to save after you make any changes that you want. Don't wait until a half an hour to save and here is why.

Say you are trying to place a rug on the floor of a building that is already in the game. You are trying to get the rug in the perfect spot and then...whoops, you grab the building piece and move it a slight bit. You think to yourself..."I will just move it back, no biggie". It is a biggie though. Now your mod becomes "dirty". This means that everyone else that makes changes to that cell, your mod will show conflict with it because of the building piece that was moved. If they go to see what the conflict is, they see a building piece was moved and may pick the other mod over yours to use in their game. But...if you save every few min, you could easily exit the mod without saving, load it back up, and that building was never touched and you can continue placing that rug.

P.S. A dirty mod means that there are changes in your mod that you didn't want to be there ( like the building piece that was moved ).

Not to mention that the CS/GECK is notorious for crashing for no good reason.

Well, it takes all of two minutes to remove that change in FO3/NVedit. Actually getting people to learn xEdit is probably more useful, as it'll show you things you've changed that you never noticed you had.

I agree with you 100%. I feel it is best to try to get into the habit of keeping your mod as clean as possible to start with, and use FO3/NVedit as the final rinse.

+1

NVEdit (or whatever Elminster ends up calling this release) will be every-bit as critical for New Vegas as it was for Fallout3. I don't want to speak to the effort too much as Elminster may plan on an announcement at some point in the future, but the gears are turning. I'll spin a new release of the manual some time after.

A version control system also comes in handy (git, svn, cvs, etc.)

I have about 100 revisions of my random skillbook mod. Because after I'd place about a dozen new spawn points, I'd save and commit to the VCS (version control system). Not just the ESP either, readme files, graphics, and everything else fits nicely into a VCS. And if the repository is kept on a 2nd drive or (better) a second server somewhere, you're less likely to lose work due to a HD crash.

You can also do it easily when you load the mod again. After selecting the mod, open up Details, find the reference you don't want to have changed and click on it, then hit your Delete key. This will tell the GECK to ignore that change so when you load up the mod it will be like it never existed. Next time you save the mod, that change will be gone.

Yes, although that's much harder to use if you've got any cells or world edits (huuuuge list you have to hunt through).