Great agreed then. They surely grew in those years, but they had alot of wars and suddenly growing from 700000 to 2,8-5 million people is too much, and i surely dont believe thats how it went.

It's because immediately after fallout 2, their population would explode because they gain territory up to Arroyo. Then for 30 years the new population that grew overnight can multiply.

But I don't think it is 2.8 million. 1.5 million seems more reasonable to me.

Indeed, and I figured that in. If I felt the 700,00 would just double, I would have put my estimate at 1.4.

Because they gained territory, and taking into account the estimated Survival Percentage, I came up with 1.8.

There are obviously other things that can alter population estimates. For example: How many died due to the Masters Army? Raiders? Slavers? Warring tribes?

The mortality rate for all is pretty bad.

Cause you aren't paying attention to what I am saying I will spell it out for you.

2241 the population of NCR was 700,000 people. In 40 years the area the size of NCR doubled. So that right there doubles the population because more people are made apart of the NCR. So the 700,000 then adds another 700,000 into the fold of the NCR.

Then in that 40 years the population doubles again to get 2.8 million people.

Using evlbastrd's 50 years you still get the samething lets do the math using the population doubling every 50 years.

As of 2241 NCR had 700,000 people. So using 50 years as the doubling mark. 2241-2077 = 164. 164 divided by 50 = 3.28.

So 700,000 divided by 2 = 350, 000. 350,000 divided by 2 = 150, 000. 150, 000 by 2 = 75,000. This means 75,000 people survived the Great Wat of 2077 in Southern California.

Now lets find out the population of 2281. Well as we know it's 700,000 people. NCR doubles its land so that is double the population, so that is 1.4 million. Now the population doubles every 50 years, but its been 40 years so in another 10 years that 1.4 million will double again. So that would put the population of all of NCR around 2.5 million people.

It's HIS MATH! It still works out the same. I said 2.8 million with my math, with his math you still get 2.5 million. Which fits what I orginally said 3 million people.


It's his math and it still comes out to 2.5 million people.

Edit: I am not saying it is for a fact 2.5 million or 2.8 million, but doing a rough estimate given the information we know, such as the 700,000 of 2241 and NCR physically doubling it's territory in 40 years, I get 2.5 to 2.8 million people.

I know there are other factors involved so I will say 2 to 3 million people. So its only 200,000 more than evlbstrd's 1.8 million people and gives a million people margin of error. Given the Math there is reason to believe it could be as high as 2.8 million people.

One thing Styles. I figured in the expansion in my calculation already.

You said Southern Cali had 30 million people, and the entire state of California had 40 million.

My calculation for the 1.8 million took into account the entire state, and pre-war population of 40 million not just Southern Cali.

Now, supposedly they also have some presence in other states, but it a pretty decent estimate when factoring in wars, mortality rates, etc.

Regardless, it is all estimates, and there is a lot of variables that could decrease or increase, or keep it in same ball park.

Ok then you say 1.8 million and I say 2 to 3 million people. We both know there are several factors involved that can screw with numbers. We are both making estimations, we aren't saying our numbers are dead on.

So at best there is only a difference of 200,000 between our estimations. So can we finally agree to disagree with this? I don't see the need to drag this out over 200,000 people lol.

Aren't California almost 40,000,000 people as of now? Looking it up... "37,691,912 - Jul 2011"... and in the Fallout universe, by 2077, USA had 400 million inhabitants, cirka 33% more than today... (looking that up too, as of now USA's got - "311,591,917 - Jul 2011") So... doing quick math... a 33% increase gives us 50,130,243 inhabitants of the state of California by 2077.

Ok, then. Cheerio!

Style for the love of Joshua Graham, why are you always saying im not paying [censored] attention? for god[censored]ing sake, dude yeah i am paying attention, read all your post, twice, and i understood, but the numbers are still too high. I even said that i was just gonna go with your numbers, still you talk [censored].. Dude what the [censored]?

[censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored]

Don't you think [censored] is [censored], or is that [censored]ing [censored] to [censored], right? I bet you'd [censored] the [censored] when [censored] [censored] the [censored]. [censored]?


Just curse less, please. Can't take your posts too seriously when all see is [censored] [censored] and [censored]. Ok? [censored]


Edit: and I didn't swear, I just copy-pasted [censored] all over.

Styles if the NCR territory doubled its size, they couldn't add another 700,000 to their 700,000 fold. As that would imply that there was

But it doesn't in forty years the population is at 1,750,000 people due forty years only increasing the population 80%, in fifty it would be at 2.8 million. But it hasn't been fifty years and as such the current NCR population at the time of New Vegas, the latest date in the series so far, would only be at 1,750,000 give or take a few. Still I would have to agree that that is close enough to two million to not really be much of an issue. :/



Doesn't this forum have an auto-filter?

EDIT: damn
EDIT: Apparently not. >.>

It does, for words like [censored], [censored] and [censored].

Then dont take them seriously, cause i swear when i want. Your lucky they are censored

Why is that? The NCR physically doubled its size if not more. It went from being Southern California (Fallout 2 which takes place in 2241) to all of California, Baja Mexico, Southern Oregon, Reno Nevada and into the Mojave by 2281, just in 40 years. So I am assuming that the area they physically took over also had a population of around 700,000 people. So this means that by gaining that physically territory, they gained another 700,000 approximately.

Then you factor in the population doubling again in 30 or 50 years that 1.4 million would become 2.5 million or 2.8 million people.

I also said in another post that I would now put the population of NCR at 2 to 3 million people approximately. It is only 200,000 more than evlbastrd's approximation. So are we really going to nitpick over 200,000?

Would it make everyone happy if I said it could be anywhere between 1.8 million and 2.8 million approximately? Because doing rough math given the information we know, I get 2.8 million approximately.



No it hasn't been 50 years but it has been 40 years since 2241, which means in just 10 more years the population would double again. So the 1.4 million would be around 2.5 million and in another 10 years (2291) it will be 2.8 million. There is also the .3 that I didn't factor into that. So it could be close to three million.

It doesnt neccesarely double, i hate it when u guys say that. NCR is at war, hell they could even loose one fifth of their population, becouse they are living in a post nuclear wasteland, and anything could happen right?

Given that California in 2077 held 50 million, it's not hard for me to believe the NCR has 3 million today, especially since they hold MORE than California. The real question is how many people live in Legion lands to be honest. But so little was said about the Southwest it's hard to guess. We do know it took the Legion 3 years to regain enough strength AND that a previous campaign in taking Denver nearly broke them...not a lot to go on really.

No thats not the real question, u still dont know how many live in NCR, u just assume its 3 mil. Its after a apocalypse, and sure its more then california, and sure that its 200 years after and sure they are organized, but populations dont double, they rise and they die.

That is why I said it is approximately 1.8 million to 2.8 million people. I used approximately alot in my post and I also said using rough math. I am not saying for a fact it is 1.8 to 2.8 million.

Just given the facts we do know. Two key facts: 1) NCR had a population of 700,000 in 2241. 2) By 2281 NCR had physically doubled their territory in just 40 years.

Also NCR has a high standerd of living and is well on it's way to becoming a developed nation.

Sos didnt notice the 1,8-2,8 million, kinda saw some people saying 5 million and so i had to deny everyone saying it was too much. 2,8 million is still too much if ya ask me.

Well I am trying to make a compromise with people here, mainly evlbastrd. I orginally said 2 to 5 million, but now I am saying 1.8 to 2.8 million people approximately.

Savage: there are a lot of military bases in Cali, also. I would think, but not positive, military people are counted in a census. So, how many of them are deployed elsewhere, Alaska, China, etc. All a part of the variables that we don't know.

Which is why this is a big guess.

One thing I know, today, the past, and in the future, wars are very taxing on a country. They cost money. Food, water, supplies, logistics.

NCR has been fighting a lot. Raiders, Mutants, BoS, Enclave, and now Legion.

This is one thing the Legion has for advantage. They are basically just a military, with slaves, while NCR is a democracy, and has a civilian population they have to, at the least, keep content.

The logistics is the problem in the Mojave, and this is why they could lose the region.

They have only been together for a couple of decades so no real population growth by itself. And they basically absorb tribes to gain strength. If its a tribe it is probably pretty small, 1,000-2,000 is my guess. And they took 87 tribes.

Let's just say they have 2,000 each and the legion kills about 500 from each tribe capturing it. So that is 131,000 people. A couple of decades would get you about a half of a doubling so add about 65,000 more, and say good enough. And I'll round it up to 200,000.

But it really depends on how big the tribes were, but I don't think they would be too big.

Edit: Caesar's Legion has been around for 35 years so just tack on a free 15,000 people.

Well tribes can number in the millions today, I mean just look at the Zulu's. Honestly I would imagine that the tribes of the South Western states (Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Utah etc.) would probably be fairly large due to their being quite a lot of diverse life plus their being some pretty low priority targets. That said, they definitely are not in the millions like the NCR. At least, that's what I gather from New Vegas. We really don't know enough about the Legion to really give accurate numbers. Personally my ball park would be around 400,000 to 500,000.

Making them about a fifth of the NCR's current ballpark estimated strength, and averaging each tribe at about four to five thousand people. Which is perfectly feasible for a tribe, that and even if the tribes were smaller population increase would put them at around that number. As for the Legion's military we can assume that similar to Rome around 27% of the population is in the Military, including both standing and deployed.

That would mean that the Legion's military could be anywhere from 108 thousand to 135,000. In the Mojave I would estimate that around 30 percent of this force is actively deployed to take the dam/fight the NCR. For a grand total of between 32,400 to 40,500 Legion members in the Mojave as of New Vegas.
All of these are estimations of course.

Speculation is fun!

EDIT: Holy Typos Batman!

i doubt the Legion has 32,400-40,500 leginoirees in the Mojave Wasteland. I would rather say, 5000. If they had 30000 they could easily overrun the dam.

Granted, but we don't know how large the NCR force in the Mojave is, so if it's sizably larger than the Legion's then 30,000 could easily by enough to cause trouble for, but not outright overrun the NCR. :/

The dam aint so big, so Caesar could cross the river anytime and [censored] the NCR if he had 30000. Sure he may not have more soldiers then NCR, im not saying that, but many NCR are occupied in places like mcarran, and mojave outpost and cant fortify the dam and the frontlines, while the Legion has freedom to attack wherever and whenever they want.