Newbie : Help - Problems with Magic : IV

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:33 am

Hi guys,
i recently installed Oblivion and following a thread called "50 steps to FCOM stable" i managed to install fcom and lot of others great mods.
Everything "seems" fine but i must have some problems because one i a while (say every 2 hours of play) i have a CTD. This is not a big deal but i have a strange behavior of my magic too.
Most of the spells i can buy have some strange "side effects". For example in this particular situation i have a magic called "DDr1: Minor Death" that causes this :

Drain health 25 points on target (OK)
Drain health 5 points for 90 seconds on self (?????)
Damage fatigue 20 points on self (????)

I attached a screenshot.

I don't think this is normal. I've installed lame and supreme magicka and also Fearsome Magicka.

Please help !!!

http://upload.centerzone.it/viewer.php?file=13968499322296925950.jpg

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:23 am

We're missing some valuable pieces of information:

I'm assuming this is a spell you made, correct? If so, what did you make it to do? That is, what effects, duration, etc.

Did you make it before you changed things in your 50 Steps program? Or has it been behaving like this all along?

What exact changes did you make to your mods since the spell was made?

Also, please post your mod list, in loading order. I've used LAME and SM together for some time, and never had anything like this happen. Others use the two together, as well, so it isn't a LAME/SM issue.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:36 am

Hi and thx for the reply.
No this is NOT a spell i made. I think it exists because i installed sm + lame (that should add new spells and magic)

Here is my load order :

Spoiler

Oblivion.esm
EnhancedWeather.esm
Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm
Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm
Cobl Main.esm
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm
Mart's Monster Mod.esm
TamrielTravellers.esm
FCOM_Convergence.esm
Armamentarium.esm
Artifacts.esm
Better Cities Resources.esm
HorseCombatMaster.esm
ScreenEffects.esm
Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp
DLCShiveringIsles.esp
Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp
Better Cities .esp
Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp
Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp
Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp
Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp
FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp
EnhancedWeather.esp
Enhanced Weather - Across-The-Borders Mods Patch.esp
MIS Low Wind.esp
MIS New Sounds Optional Part.esp
WindowLightingSystem.esp
RAEVWD Cities.esp
RAEVWD New Sheoth.esp
RAEVWD Imperial City.esp
Enhanced Economy.esp
DropLitTorchOBSE.esp
FormID Finder4.esp
ScreenControls.esp
Enhanced Hotkeys.esp
XiaNewAmuletsV1.esp
Armamentium female.esp
DLCThievesDen.esp
DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp
Cobl Glue.esp
Cobl Si.esp
Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp
FCOM_BobsArmory.esp
Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp
Oblivion WarCry EV.esp
FCOM_WarCry.esp
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp
OMOBS.esp
OMOBS_SI.esp
OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp
FCOM_Convergence.esp
FCOM_RealSwords.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp
TamrielTravellers4OOO.esp
TamrielTravellersItemsCobl.esp
ShiveringIsleTravellers.esp
FCOM_MoreRandomItems.esp
KDCircletsOOOOptimized - Loot Only.esp
OOO-WaterFish.esp
EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer4FCOM.esp
Artifacts.esp
Knights.esp
Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp
EVE_KnightsoftheNine.esp
RTT.esp
The Lost Spires.esp
Mighty Umbra.esp
Lost Paladins of the Divines.esp
road+bridges.esp
xuldarkforest.esp
LostSpires-DarkForest patch.esp
xulStendarrValley.esp
xulTheHeath.esp
XulEntiusGorge.esp
xulFallenleafEverglade.esp
LostSpires-Everglade patch.esp
xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp
xulChorrolHinterland.esp
xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp
xulBravilBarrowfields.esp
xulLushWoodlands.esp
xulAncientYews.esp
xulAncientRedwoods.esp
xulCloudtopMountains.esp
xulArriusCreek.esp
xulPatch_AY_AC.esp
xulRollingHills_EV_withoutWheat.esp
xulPantherRiver.esp
xulRiverEthe.esp
xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp
xulImperialIsle.esp
xulBlackwoodForest.esp
xulCheydinhalFalls.esp
xulAspenWood.esp
xulSkingradOutskirts.esp
xulSnowdale.esp
xulCliffsOfAnvil.esp
NRB4+UL-II Patch.esp
bartholm.esp
Salmo the Baker, Cobl.esp
Bag of Holding.esp
HUD Status Bars.esp
EVE_ShiveringIslesEasterEggs.esp
P1DkeyChain.esp
Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp
SupremeMagicka.esp
SM_ShiveringIsles.esp
SM_EnchantStaff.esp
MidasSpells.esp
FearsomeMagicka.esp
Deadly Reflex 6 - Timed Block with no damage or durability changes.esp
Mounted_Spellcasting_Deadly_Reflex_Compatible.esp
nGCD.esp
nGCD Oghma Infinium.esp
SP1stPLegs.esp
Cobl Races.esp
bgBalancingEVCore.esp
bgMagicEV.esp
bgMagicBonus.esp
bgMagicEVPaperChase.esp
bgMagicAlchemy.esp
bgMagicPotionNumberSoulGemValue.esp
bgBalancingEVLAMEAddition.esp
bgIntegrationEV.esp
Better Cities SKINGRAD.esp
Better Cities BRAVIL.esp
Better Cities ANVIL.esp
Better Cities CHORROL.esp
Better Cities CHEYDINHAL.esp
Better Cities LEYAWIIN.esp
Better Cities BRUMA.esp
Better Cities IC Arboretum.esp
Better Cities IC Arcane University.esp
Better Cities IC Arena.esp
Better Cities IC Elven Gardens.esp
Better Cities IC Green Emperor Way.esp
Better Cities IC Market.esp
Better Cities IC Prison.esp
Better Cities IC Talos Plaza.esp
Better Cities IC Temple.esp
Better Cities IC Waterfront.esp
Better Cities - Ruined Tail's Tale.esp
Better Cities - COBL.esp
Better Cities - No LEYAWIIN Flooding.esp
bgMagicEVShader.esp
bgMagicLightningbolt.esp
FCOM_Archery.esp
DeadlyReflex 6 - Combat Moves.esp
Cobl Silent Equip Misc.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp
Streamline 3.1.esp

Thanks

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:27 am

Since this is not your spell then fable2's question is relevant: Has it changed attributes from the original, or was it always like this?

I find it hard to believe this is a L.A.M.E. spell (because it is a lame spell :confused: ) Since you have three Magica altering mods it seems likely there is some conflict. See LAMEs readme section 5. He doesn't cover Fearsome Magica but there is some advice on load order vice Supreme Magica.

You have a considerable load with multiple overhaul mods that would give even the most experienced OB addict fits (FCOM, OOO, MMM, Francesco's and three magica overhauls.) I'm surprised Wrye didn't just huddle shivering in the corner :rolleyes: My congratulations to you for even getting your game to load :thumbsup:

My best advice to you is to either ignore this spell or delete it.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:28 am

Edouard's point is good: FCOM and three magic alteration systems going at once are going to cause some anomalies, at best. You BOSS'd your mod list, correct?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:53 am

Edouard's point is good: FCOM and three magic alteration systems going at once are going to cause some anomalies, at best. You BOSS'd your mod list, correct?

:wink_smile: Four actually.
Oscuro's also alters vanilla magic.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:18 am

Thx again for the reply. I'm not an expert in Oblivion Mods ... i just followed the instructions i found here :

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1119325-50steps-to-stable-fcom/

According the the author he says that using SM + LAME + OOO and so on should not be a problem as you can read at step 22.
Yes i'm using BOSS for the load order and to help wrye with tags

What is not clear to me is what to import when creating the bashed patch and maybe the problem is in that step because i was not able to find detailed instructions for that step.

Could a missing check during the creation of the bashed patch causing this strange problem ?

Thx for you time

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:34 pm

actually, that looks like a normal SM/LAME spell. To balance its massive 25dam/sec drain on target, it applies a DoT to you to compensate, and considering its a DDr1, meaning its a Apprentice-level spell...

Though it does seem that there is a spell overlap, you're probably looking at two of the same spell (from both SM and LAME) thus the double malus to you.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:36 am

actually, that looks like a normal SM/LAME spell. To balance its massive 25dam/sec drain on target, it applies a DoT to you to compensate, and considering its a DDr1, meaning its a Apprentice-level spell...

Correct. I'm pretty sure it's LAME (although I also run SM - but not OOO or FCOM, so it's not either of those) which adds a bunch of low-level spells which hit the target much harder than normal for spells at that level and also harms you as the price for that extra effect. There's another which paralyzes both you and the target, several "bound X" spells with Stunted Magicka for their duration, etc. Also, these spells are generally sold at Discount Spells (I don't recall having seen them anywhere else), giving weight to the IC rumor that "buying discount spells doesn't seem like a very good idea".

And a side point: Drain X isn't a DoT. It drains the full amount immediately and the duration is how long it lasts before the drained amount is returned to the target, which is why Drain Health 100 x 30 seconds (lose 100 health and max health; get it back in 30 seconds) is so much cheaper than Damage Health 100 x 30 seconds (take 3,000 damage over the course of 30 seconds).

Though it does seem that there is a spell overlap, you're probably looking at two of the same spell (from both SM and LAME) thus the double malus to you.

Nope, spells don't work that way. Where LAME and SM both modify the same spell, you either get only the version from the later-loading of the two (if both modify the original vanilla spell) or two different spells with the same name (if one or both create a new spell instead of modifying the vanilla version).

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:18 am

Though it does seem that there is a spell overlap, you're probably looking at two of the same spell (from both SM and LAME) thus the double malus to you.

Not to belabor the point, but the rule in gamesas modding is Last In, Final Say. If Mods A and B affect the same thing and Mod B loads after Mod A, Mod B makes the changes. Note that if Mod A affects some things Mod B doesn't touch, though, you'll get those in the game, plus Mod B's take on the things it shares with Mod A. Makes life interesting for all of us.

Tmbt, I think you might still want to look at how Fearsome Magicka interacts with your other magic system mods. LAME and SM work well together, and as ndervish points out, OOO is transparent to these. But Fearsome Magicka isn't in this group, and while this problem has been figured out, you may discover other spells from one of the other mods that don't act as described because of FM. It helps to check this stuff out in advance.