[RELz] nGCD v2.0 : IV - Oblivion

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:08 pm

Hi,

I`d like some explanation re training. I have Practice Targets OBSE installed and wonder if there could be a conflict.
Practice Targets allow for training without a trainer. You just take practice arrows from a chest and shoot at a vanilla target.
How will nGCD handle that?

BTW, while at it anyway, any potential conflicts with T.I.E.?

Regards, Haldir

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:16 am

To nGCD, gaining skill with Practice Targets looks exactly the same as gaining skill by shooting at real enemies. It has nothing to do with the Oblivion training mechanic, and there is no conflict.

There should be no issues with TIE, or any other scaling overhaul.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:07 pm

To nGCD, gaining skill with Practice Targets looks exactly the same as gaining skill by shooting at real enemies. It has nothing to do with the Oblivion training mechanic, and there is no conflict.

There should be no issues with TIE, or any other scaling overhaul.

tejon,

THX awfully.

Regards, Haldir

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:21 am

I just upgraded (set nGCD.clean to 1, clean save, set level to 1, save, load v2.0) and all of my attributes are lowered... 10% to 25%, average drop of 17.5%. However, my level went up by 1, from 14 to 15. I played with a couple of the toggles in the new nGCD.ini but the basic results are the same.

I don't mind the attribute drops (which I assume can be attributed to tweaked calculations, and I noticed the skill and attribute matrices are a little different than RC6), but is there something I could tweak to get my level to drop by 3 or 4? I could barely hold my own sometimes with RC6, now with 17% less "power" it'll be awfully hard to keep up...

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:16 pm

is there something I could tweak to get my level to drop by 3 or 4?

nGCD.fLevelFactor, the first setting in nGCDCalc.ini. It's a simple multiplier on your level, defaults to 1.0. Try 0.8-ish?

On this subject: I'm extremely interested in balance reports with these new settings. I erred on the side of difficulty, because that's the kind of gameplay I prefer... but if it's just too hard for most people, I can reduce the default LevelFactor.

I'm also particularly curious whether the new default Health calculation is too crippling to Mages. The current numbers are set on the assumption that if you're getting hit (or even running a lot), you'll gain some Combat skills and your Health will rise. However, you do have to survive those first couple of hits!

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:31 pm

tejon: I might have a problem. I just started a new character with ngcd, progress, and willful resistance. Female Nord, the Mage birthsign and standard BattleMage class. Willful Resistance does not appear to be functioning at all as I am not seeing the modifier under Active Effects despite having a low willpower number.

Screenshots: http://i55.tinypic.com/eapqia.jpg and http://i56.tinypic.com/2ii7g5u.jpg

Load order of related mods:

nGCD.esp
ProgressArmorer.esp
ProgressGSD.esp
ProgressRacial.esp
Willful Resistance.esp
Disable Tutorial Text.esp
Immediate Character Generation.esp

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:24 pm

I have an update regarding SM compatibility:

set zzSMConfigurationQuest.MagickaCombatBase to 0	; Magicka gameplay settings while in combat, set to -1 to disable reduced magicka in combatset zzSMConfigurationQuest.MagickaCombatMult to 0.0033set zzSMConfigurationQuest.MageMagickaBase to 0.01	; Magicka gameplay settings while in combat with the mage birthsign only if above setting is enabledset zzSMConfigurationQuest.MageMagickaMult to 0.01

The Supreme Magicka script says:

Spoiler

;Combat magicka regen
if MagickaCombatBase != -1
if Player.IsInCombat && Player.IsSpellTarget BSMage
if getGS fMagickaReturnBase != MageMagickaBase
SetNumericGameSetting fMagickaReturnBase MageMagickaBase
endif
if getGS fMagickaReturnMult != MageMagickaMult
SetNumericGameSetting fMagickaReturnMult MageMagickaMult
endif
elseif Player.IsInCombat
if getGS fMagickaReturnBase != MagickaCombatBase
SetNumericGameSetting fMagickaReturnBase MagickaCombatBase
endif
if getGS fMagickaReturnMult != MagickaCombatMult
SetNumericGameSetting fMagickaReturnMult MagickaCombatMult
endif
else
if getGS fMagickaReturnBase != MagickaRegenBase
SetNumericGameSetting fMagickaReturnBase MagickaRegenBase
endif
if getGS fMagickaReturnMult != MagickaRegenMult
SetNumericGameSetting fMagickaReturnMult MagickaRegenMult
endif
endif
endif

That means that "set zzSMConfigurationQuest.MagickaCombatBase" should be set to -1 or SM will overwrite fMagickaReturnBase and fMagickaReturnMult when the player is in combat.

As a conclusion:
For compatibility of ngcd with Supreme Magicka the following settings need to be changed in the sm.ini:

Spoiler

In the "Gameplay Settings" section:

;setGS fPCBaseMagickaMult 1 is commented out and set to 1 by default - SHOULD NOT BE CHANGED

In the "Magicka Regeneration Settings" section:

SetGS fMagickaReturnBase 0.05 SET THIS TO 0
SetGS fMagickaReturnMult 0.034 SET THIS TO 0
set zzSMConfigurationQuest.MagickaCombatBase to 0 SET THIS TO -1

2 additional questions:

1.
SM loads its values for fMagickaReturnBase and fMagickaReturnMult from the SM.ini
ngcd also sets these values to 0 on Game load. Both of them use scripts.
Is there a way to tell which mod loads its configuration first on game load?
2.
Some of your calculations are a bit hard to follow

What is the Min and Max Health/Magicka a character can have with default configuration?

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:35 pm

nGCD.fLevelFactor, the first setting in nGCDCalc.ini. It's a simple multiplier on your level, defaults to 1.0. Try 0.8-ish?

On this subject: I'm extremely interested in balance reports with these new settings. I erred on the side of difficulty, because that's the kind of gameplay I prefer... but if it's just too hard for most people, I can reduce the default LevelFactor.

I can't really comment on balance (one of the hardest concepts in gaming industry to get right) but I gained about 6 levels I believe. Guess I had a pretty hardcoe setting in the RC6... So anyway, I am going with the 0.8.
Also this time I let BG's Race balancing and his Lame magic mods do the other calculations. The same for fatigue; I might change this later as nGCD gives allot more control over how things get done

Thanks!

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:22 am

Willful Resistance does not appear to be functioning at all

Huh... it's not working for me either. I don't think there's any way this can be nGCD-related. OBSE 0019, maybe? Keep an eye on my general mods thread, I'll post there when I figure this out.

Edit: Odd, I just saw it on a different (new) character. I didn't see that character's birthsign effects... but nGCD's calculations were taking them into account. This looks like a display error. Do you have MenuQue installed? And for your character, what's the console result of: player.GetAV ResistMagic

I have an update regarding SM compatibility:

Thanks for that!

Is there a way to tell which mod loads its configuration first on game load?

Oh, I wish.

Edit @Locksley, below -- the player can see the order they load, sure. The scripts themselves can't without extensive mutual coordination, that's the problem.

What is the Min and Max Health/Magicka a character can have with default configuration?

Minimum Health in the starting cell with no immediate character generation is a female Altmer: 19.

Minimum Health after character generation (i.e. once you have a class) is a female Altmer Mage: 31.

Maximum starting Health is an Orc with 36. Add the Warrior birthsign, it goes up to 43. Add the Warrior class and he's got 132.

Absolute maximum Health without an uncapper is 700. This is achieved with all skills at 100. (There appear to be occasional rounding errors... some characters only wind up with 695.)

All of these numbers are Vanilla. Of course, they'll vary if you have race/birthsign mods installed. (I don't think anything lowers the minimum, though.)

Meanwhile: I've uploaded http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14065.

Thanks to MiSP and Ayleid People, the archive is now omod-ready.
Better fix to the 2.01 issue, plus another game-init-related issue.
2.01's fix kinda-sorta broke both of the alternate settings for iTrainingMode. They work again.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:24 pm

Oh, I wish.

But when you look at the console when starting up it lists the ini it reads, donno if it need a line in the mod to show that it loaded - probably. And wouldn't the order in which they are listed be the order they load?
EDIT - Oh, it said configuration not load ini files - my bad.... END EDIT
Cheers for the update

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:00 am

Edit: Odd, I just saw it on a different (new) character. I didn't see that character's birthsign effects... but nGCD's calculations were taking them into account. This looks like a display error. Do you have MenuQue installed? And for your character, what's the console result of: player.GetAV ResistMagic

I do not have MenuQue installed but I can.

player.getAV ResistMagic
GetActorValue: ResistMagic >> 0.00

Edit: MenuQue now installed.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:48 pm

GetActorValue: ResistMagic >> 0.00

Okay, it's actually not there. I'll need to investigate further, so back to what I said before the edit -- this'll be addressed on my general thread once I figure it out.

You don't need MenuQue, I was asking if you have it because it's the only thing I can think of that might have something to do with display errors. But hey, now that you've got it: I highly recommend TheNiceOne's http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1118552-relz-hud-status-bars/!

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:07 pm

So much complicated stuff...

If needed, how would this work with Realistic Fatigue/Health, FF Real Thirst Cobl, Real Hunger Cobl, Duke Patrick's Basic Hypothermia? All of these affect your fatigue and stats if/when neglected.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:17 pm

So much complicated stuff...

If needed, how would this work with Realistic Fatigue/Health, FF Real Thirst Cobl, Real Hunger Cobl, Duke Patrick's Basic Hypothermia? All of these affect your fatigue and stats if/when neglected.

Well, I use Realistic Fatigue (not R.health though), hunger mod, Hypo; and I see no problem. If something seems off to you one can adjust it in one of the ini. So if you want a smooth quiet levelling mod you can use this

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:55 pm

Well that is the problem. I look at these ini's with all the 'math' stuff and my mind takes a vacation.
I wouldn't know what is supposed to feel off if I experienced it anyway.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:40 pm

nGCD doesn't touch fatigue. All fatigue mods are 100% compatible.

Realistic Health is compatible because ABO knew how to make it so, since Realistic Leveling has the exact same compatibility rules as nGCD.

Most "needs" mods that anyone uses these days are also compatible.

As a general rule: if it's by ABO, The Nice One, StrategyMaster, bg2408 or (of course) myself, I can pretty much guarantee no conflicts -- or at worst, conflicts that can be fixed with .ini-file edits. We've all compared notes and know how to avoid problems.

The only one you listed that I can't comment on for sure is Duke Patrick's Basic Hypothermia, but he's been doing this long enough that I wouldn't worry.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:51 pm

I never thought about this but does combining this with TIE's increased encumb and or lowered stats (not sure all it does as there was never a 'standard' readme) make you even weaker starting out?
If so then the immediate character generation esp sounds like it would balance that out.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:48 pm

I never thought about this but does combining this with TIE's increased encumb and or lowered stats (not sure all it does as there was never a 'standard' readme) make you even weaker starting out?
If so then the immediate character generation esp sounds like it would balance that out.

Again - as stated in the TIE thread - TIE is a scaling and leveled list overhaul primarily ... all the rest of TIE ... game settings of stealth, magic combat, fatigue ... all that stuff is safe to overwrite with later loading mods if that is what you want to do. Tie reduces encumbrance - I'm not aware of it at all messing with attributes. TIE should be compatible with just about all race and leveling and alt start mods.

For instance if you have a fatigue mod (tejon, abo, SM) loading after TIE then no more TIE encumbrance.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:08 pm

Hi all,

just installed nGCD 2.01 on an existing char and first time I slept I got a level up vanilla screen with message to increase 3 attributes. How come?
My LO from WB 290:

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 1.0]02  MD_Saddle_Master.esm03  BathingMod_Base.esm04  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.3.1]05  DLCShiveringIsles.esp06  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]07  All Natural.esp  [Version 1.0]08  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 1.0]09  Enhanced Water v2.0 HD.esp++  Enhanced Water v2.0 HD - SI Addon.esp  [Version 0.1]++  Symphony of Violence.esp0A  AmbientTownSounds.esp0B  MIS Low Wind.esp0C  MIS New Sounds Optional Part.esp0D  Atmospheric Oblivion.esp0E  PCSoundImoen.esp  [Version 2.6]0F  Rainbows.esp10  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 1.0]11  Cities Alive At Night.esp12  WindowLightingSystem.esp13  Ayleid Loot EXtension.esp  [Version 1.1]14  CDM-Duel.esp15  Chapel Tithe.esp16  EasySpellRemovalv1.esp17  kuerteeSittableRocks.esp++  Oscars_Nicer_Grass-3346.esp18  SoT_Holiday.esp19  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 4.3.1]1A  FF_Real_Thirst.esp1B  Duke Patricks - Friendship Ring For Companion Detection.esp  [Version 1.8]1C  Streamline 3.1.esp1D  DLCHorseArmor.esp1E  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]1F  DLCOrrery.esp20  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.3]21  DLCVileLair.esp22  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]23  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp24  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]25  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]26  Darkgreen Glass Armour.esp27  VampireCurePotions 1.0.esp28  XSPipeMod.esp  [Version 1.2]29  Dude Wheres My Horse.esp2A  MD Saddlebags v3.0.esp2B  MD Saddlebags v3.0 Alternative Trader Script.esp2C  DLCThievesDen.esp2D  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]2E  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp  [Version 1.0.4]2F  kuerteeWanderingEncounters.esp30  TIE.esp  [Version 1.37]31  A's Elven Swords.esp32  EM_CompInnsleeping.esp  [Version 0.9]33  BogwaterDowns.esp34  JolardHome.esp35  000lute.esp36  za_bankmod.esp37  DLCFrostcrag.esp38  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]39  Knights.esp3A  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]3B  Enemy Actors Use Powers 0.1.1.esp3C  Birthsigns Expanded.esp  [Version 3.11.]3D  DS Less Predictable Respawn.esp  [Version 1.1]3E  HelmetFOV.esp3F  kuerteeInventoryIsABackpack.esp40  Oblivion - Soulgems.esp41  kuerteeGoldIsAnInventoryItem.esp42  SRJIrresponsibleHorses.esp43  Roleplaying Dialogues.esp44  RH 1.4 [non-MMM] with Grumble Sounds.esp45  BathingMod.esp46  BathingMod_Bathrooms.esp47  RealSleepExtended.esp  [Version 2.5]48  RenGuardOverhaul.esp49  Duke Patricks Basic Denock Arrows.esp4A  nGCD.esp++  nGCD Birthsigns.esp4B  nGCD Oghma Infinium.esp++  nGCD Skeleton Key.esp4C  Immediate Character Generation.esp4D  Moonshadow Elves - Sc.esp4E  CuteElf11.esp  [Version 1.2]4F  1em_Vilja.esp  [Version 2.3.2]50  Rabies Dire Wolf Companion.esp51  NoLoad.esp52  [GFX]_Initial_Glow-all.esp53  PracticeTargets_OBSE.esp54  Beast Tongue  Evolved.esp55  Duke Patricks - Magic you can believe in.esp++  Duke Patricks - BASIC Script Effect Silencer NIF REMOVED.esp++  LEM Retextured Glass Weapons.esp**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 1.0]56  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

Regards, Haldir

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:10 pm

ini?

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:34 am

I got a level up vanilla screen

Aww, I really thought I'd managed to eliminate that.

Oh well... guess I the blank level-up menu file has to come back.

For now, just click three attributes and continue. nGCD will override it, so it's harmless, just annoying.

Out of curiosity, did you see the little level-up arrow on your interface? Hopefully I at least managed to prevent that!

Edit: You say this was an existing character. Was it ready to level up before you installed nGCD? Maybe that's the only issue, and I don't have to mess with XML...

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:58 pm

Thanks for one of the most needed mods in the whole TES universe. GCD and nGCD are necessities in my opinion. :tops:

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:20 pm

Aww, I really thought I'd managed to eliminate that.

Oh well... guess I the blank level-up menu file has to come back.

For now, just click three attributes and continue. nGCD will override it, so it's harmless, just annoying.

Out of curiosity, did you see the little level-up arrow on your interface? Hopefully I at least managed to prevent that!

Edit: You say this was an existing character. Was it ready to level up before you installed nGCD? Maybe that's the only issue, and I don't have to mess with XML...

Hi tèjon,

maybe it was just that I let new nGCD overwrite an old one straight away. I did later a nGCD.Clean and a clean save inbetween deleting old nGCD and then installing 2.02, seems OK. Let`s wait and see how we level next time.
And I always play with some nGCD as of now so my chars don`t know anything else.
BTW, I usually have a few chars to switch between. Should I do the proper clean for all of them? Because I didn`t and the others seem run OK.

And sorry, weren`t looking for level-up arrow.

Regards, Haldir

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:20 am

Okay... previous versions of nGCD used a brute-force method of preventing vanilla level-ups (blank menu and icon files) which was removed with v2, and if you didn't do a clean-save the new scripted method might not have triggered. I just did another test of the new system, and I'm pretty confident this was a one-time glitch.

If your other characters seem fine, I wouldn't worry. But if things start looking weird, just clean-save from wherever you are and it should be OK.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:55 pm

Okay... previous versions of nGCD used a brute-force method of preventing vanilla level-ups (blank menu and icon files) which was removed with v2, and if you didn't do a clean-save the new scripted method might not have triggered. I just did another test of the new system, and I'm pretty confident this was a one-time glitch.

If your other characters seem fine, I wouldn't worry. But if things start looking weird, just clean-save from wherever you are and it should be OK.

I just upgraded to nGCD 2 and a few strange things happened with my character. First I tried to upgrade without cleaning the save from the old one, and then I ended up with a level 15000+ character. After forcing it to clean and allowing levels to decrease I ended up with a level 22 character from previuosly a level 16. What's the reason for gaining so many levels?

Did you change the calculations or did something else change?