Please do not use this thread to discuss the explorer cap. There are already multiple threads for that. This thread has been created to focus on the fact that, prior to v1.2/v1.21, the National Guard Depot event—triggering at 60 hours into wasteland exploration—had offered the chance to obtain one Legendary item; but, now it doesn't. Thus, no matter how times you explore the wasteland, it's impossible to obtain any more Legendary items without using Lunchboxes, whose notoriously low rate of Legendary drops renders the whole endeavor of endgame completion impossible; but, there are broader implications. This newly implemented change, without warning or explanation, removed gameplay instead of adding to or enhancing it. Frankly, the removal of enjoyable, non-game-breaking mechanics is never a good outcome for an "update."


Bethesda has remained silent, but we shouldn't.


And so, the specific issues I would like this thread to address are that (1) the v1.2/v1.21 update removed gameplay rather than expanding it; (2) that this removal did not fix a game-breaking issue, enhance gameplay, or result in any benefit to the player, but rather did the opposite of all three; (3) that these changes—especially and most importantly, the removal of the opportunity for players to obtain a Legendary item at the NGD—have been neither acknowledged in the update notes or elsewhere, nor explained or justified in any way, shape, or form by Bethesda or one of its representatives; and, finally, (4) that the update notes—despite our inquiries, statements, and discussions all going unanswered—state, "Continued general maintenance to the Vault simulation. Because when you speak, Vault-Tec listens!"


@Gstaff : We are still here, and await an answer.

I've been playing other games with really cashgrabbing updates and changes that AT LEAST have a dev or two answering the players.

As advertised, they listen. I am quite sure they know what we want.

But we do not know what they think.

They made legendary items impossible except from the boxes, it may mean players have to buy with real money.

I agree paying, and actually I have prepared to pay. However, when I find that it will take a lot of money, (2500 boxes to get all the legendary dwellers) I won't buy it. Compare it to the cost of my iPad, that sort of money is unreasonable. I paid $25 in-app for a tower game stars and I play till the end.

They filled the boxes with CAPS and no way I will buy.

I am in the end game now, getting almost all the weapons and outfits. But I got no alternative but quit.

I totally agree that they are, in fact, hearing our voiced concerns, but I do not find it acceptable that they have not responded. I, too, have paid into the game as well and was fine with that as something of an occasional treat. The limitation of Legendary items to Lunchboxes—sporting a low rate of Legendary drops—makes it not a viable equivalent to the NGD event. For the same reason as yourself, it really does ruin endgame completion without adding to or enhancing the game.

So clearly I am missing something here...


Whats the National Guard Depot event? Or...what WAS it?

The National Guard Depot event takes place right around the 60 hour mark of exploration (2 days 12 hours), usually a few minutes after. In version 1.0 the legendary weapon drop rate was 10% supposedly for iOS users. There is a statistician that did a bunch of research on it, and it was right around 10%. I'm an Android user, so I never got to enjoy that crazy high rate when 1.1 came out, but apparently we still had a really minor chance of getting something at the event, but it is now gone. The only way to get legendary gear is through lunchboxes, which I've purchased the five pack three times, but likely never will again because of those stupid 500 caps "rare" items. I'm at the point in the game that my lowest weapon that helps me is the enhanced railway rifle, or rusty flamer as my lowest end vault weapon. Lunchboxes are mostly garbage now, I did get a Mean Green Monster in one recently which was cool, but those times are not often.

The most I ever got from the National Guard Depot was rare items. I've never had an explorer get a legendary item with out using the old timing/force quit glitch which was fixed in the 1.2 update.

Now with explorers coming back after filling up, it seems like there will be no way to get unique items except via lunchboxes.

I have gotten Legendary dwellers and items via lunchboxes earned via objectives. The rate seems to be about the same as it's always been.

How much money does Bethesda want for us to pay for this game?


Usually AAA title like Fallout 4 on PC / console price is $50-60 dollars range. Do you Bethesda expect player of FOS to pay more than price of FO4? Do you think it is reasonable expectation? Was it not enough to put explorer cap?


Now legendary drop on NGD removed, the only way to get legendary weapon/dweller is buying lunchbox. Not valueable challenge to persue. I feel lucky that I quit playing FOS a while ago.

.

I've never gotten a legendary (on Android) from the wastes and I've been playing since the hour it was released. Before the last update I used to have 50+ dwellers exploring, but to no avail. Now I just hoard boxes, because it looks like the chance is higher when you save them up a bit. I save up 10 boxes usually then open them all at once and usually get a legendary item or two...every 2 sessions of this or so a dweller

In no way can the NGD crippling be considered a conscientious, user-benefitting software update on Bethesda's part. I consider it stacking the deck against us, no less unfair than marking cards in a Poker tournament.


Bethesda is CHEATING in a game they themselves have called "Infinitely Profitable" to write.

I, only in my personal experience on iOS, got most of my Legendary items from the NGD. Nevertheless, I would certainly be interested in seeing the in game numbers for both android and iOS regarding the method of stacking lunch boxes that you described—especially given the poor luck that I've had with lunch boxes recently.

You haven't updated the game yet have you? Because ever since there is an Android version supposedly there are no legendary drops from the NGD....


EDIT

Aaaand I read your first post again... svcks doesn't it? This situation I mean...

I downloaded the game only a week ago and i immediately spent money on lunchboxes to get the head start. I bought 100 boxes (40 box twice and 5 box 4 times) and i only got 3 legendary dwellers. (Mr. Burke, Colonel Autumn, Dr. Li). I also earned around 10 boxes during gameplay. Needless to say the game gives you boxes very slowly and getting a legendary dweller out of them is quite rare as you can see from my experience hence i have decided not to buy any more lunchboxes. I will probably be done with the game once fallout 4 comes out anyway.

I have indeed received some legendary outfits and weapons, if i remember correctly the first ever lunchbox i opened gave me an enhanced fatman. Couple missile launchers, vengeance, fatman, alien blaster, couple of railway rifles, enhanced gatling laser and few others which have lower then 20 damage.

It really does. Each day, I check online, in App Store, and here for some sort of response, movement, or change. I definitely sympathize with everyone who is outraged as a paying customer. Consumer base should not be ignored. Still, I'm most stubborn when it comes to something that matters to me; here, that's honestly Bethesda.


I've been a fan for a long time of their support of the gaming community, particularly regarding mods (e.g. Allowing the online community to self-police for infringement, giving us mod tools, highlighting quality mods in their blog, etc.) as well as resisting many harmful and questionable industry trends of other AAA developers. This situation, however, contradicts that comparatively good track record—a fact that I find truly tragic. For that reason, it should be clear that this isn't about a single game; what's at stake is what they represented within the industry being torn apart by their own hands. If at all possible, I'd like some assurance they haven't taken a turn for the worse.

I have 10 legendary dwellers in my main vault. (Threes of them duplicates)

8 of them got before the August update, 2 of them before the last update. Nothing afterwards.

The more they update, the. More difficult to find legendary.

I like this game and ready to spend some money to show my appreciation, but hold back because of the 500 CAPS in the box. It would drain up my wallet before I can get all the dwellers.

I would buy the Fallout 4 later after people get some reviews, see if it is worthwhile or just draining my money.

oh wow, i did not even know this....i thought i was just unlucky.,.

This really should be fixed. Ive got 60 hours on my game and purchased 40 lunch boxes and have a TON of legendaries i still need. mainly dwellers.

There needs to be a way to gain legendaries not only more quickly than before....but the lunchboxes need to be improved too. i personally would purchase more lunch boxes, if a vast majority of my 40 purchased luncboxes didn't give me such poor results...

And this is why it's all the more infuriating that these changes were not announced in any way, shape, or form. Hell, the first 50+ reviews on iOS don't even list it. Now, the responsibility of informing players of this major change is relegated to the fans on the forums.

and lets be real, ive never seen this forums before. I have just now signed up to complain about legendary acquistion in hoping that I might be heard by bethesda....

One of my professors in school is friends with a bethesda developer. Mayhaps I can ask for his contact information. XD

This. I got a $50 in Google Play credit for switching to Project Fi and there aren't many apps I want to buy, so it's sitting in my account. The lunch boxes are so bad I don't even want to spend free money in them!

I'm shocked the game is still bringing in any profit at all anymore. With each update they are giving players less reason to keep playing and little to no reason to spend real money on Lunchboxes. Once you have reached max dwellers and have equipped everyone with rare weapons and outfits there is no reason to even bother exploring the wasteland. Caps are worthless once you have you vault built. With legendary dwellers and items only available in lunchboxes and the drop rate so incredibly low what is the point of even trying to complete the collection.

This is unfortunate news. I bought a 40 pack of lunchboxes not longer after the game hit Android but I'm not spending another dime on it. Out of that 40 pack, I got 1 legendary dweller, Preston Garvey, and I think 4 legendary weapons. Even if I cared enough to try to collect all the legendaries, which I don't, I literally cannot afford to buy enough lunchboxes to do it. I could buy a lot of AAA titles for that amount.

This is getting ridiculous. For anyone reading this thread, if you feel like us, please be sure to reflect it in your App Store/Google Play review. The developer really needs to understand that their customers don't appreciate this kind of conduct. Maybe then they will actually respond to us.

+1


Taking an essential part of game play (ability to get legendary items from the wasteland) away from players is a slap in the face to those who have been playing from day one!


Bethesda has only made this change for one reason, to sell more lunch boxes to make more MONEY!

I think Bethesda realized the enormous popularity of Fallout Shelter and realized they hadn't focused on giving incentive to players to actually spend money. Sure, we could spend, and I did, but everything except legendary dwellers was available in the game without purchasing lunchboxes. Even lunchboxes themselves could be farmed at the rate of 4-5 a day for a consistent player. They also lacked the huge buying incentive most social/multiplayer games do, in that Fallout Shelter is a stand alone, singleplayer game, it doesn't pit gamers against one another creating the spend-a-thon most other profitable mobile games have. So, they made a controversial move to make more of the game's content exclusive to lunchboxes. Thus giving more incentive to purchase and making it harder for freebie players to collect all the loot/content. It's only controversial because it didn't start this way from the games release. If it was released as is today everyone would still love it.


I understand the move and don't fault them for it. It may prove beneficial in the long run for Fallout Shelter's longevity. I expect a FS2 is in the works and many updates have already been planned for the future. Bethesda has created something unique here and made it proffitable.

To justify this sort of move for Bethesda (or any developer) based on profit model would be to give carte blanche to every developer who curtails content for profitability (e.g. release-day DLC, paywalls, etc.)—exactly the sort of models Todd Howard had spoken against on numerous occasions. Even so, an unexpected popularity actually works against the argument towards increased incentives for in-app purchases, as increased volume of customer base entails increased buyer potential. Also, as the game is hosted through Apple servers, there isn't even an excuse of increased costs in terms of server capacity. Service removal via in-game mechanics works to actually, then, counters any volume-proportionate gain with a customer disincentive that, over time, increasingly lowers profit. Furthermore, removal of value to a steady customer base without providing equivalent-or-better any value-adding factor(s) has been shown (i.e. Sims 4) to decrease overall goodwill value of a company (i.e. EA)—which, although seemingly innocuous, directly affects a company's intangible assets insofar as legal valuation.


Nevertheless, the financial model does not change nor in any way counter customer reaction in the face of implemented changes. Whether a company bases their course of dealing on profit model or not, profit alone is no justification for acting against paying customers. Indeed, once a product is released, removal of benefits once held by all customers are going to garner resentment. Perhaps had the mechanics been different, the wouldn't have mattered; but, they weren't, and that sort of hypothesis doesn't touch upon whether the product, Fallout Shelter, would have ever gained its popularity without this mechanic originally in it.


For example, if Apple had decided along the way to limit the use of in-device storage/use of any song on iPods/iPhones to purchases only from their iTunes Store, there's little doubt customers would not be happy with that sort of profit model, and potential customers would certainly be dissuaded from buying from Apple. Additionally, had Apple begun with that model, it would be just as reasonable to hypothesize that the popularity of iPods would not have risen to the level that it did. Either way, the issue remains: profit model alone cannot sufficiently justify a removal of benefits to the customer base—particularly benefits previously enjoyed without hindrance since release.


TL;DR


Profits don't excuse the removal of customer-benefits in terms of gameplay. The hypothesis that not having the benefit from the beginning doesn't sway, nor does the increased volume of customers necessitate (nor entail long term profit by) increasing incentives for in-app purchases.