A nice easy question...

Post » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:23 pm

Pardon me if it's a stupid question or often answered, I did do a forum search beforehand and didn't really find the answer I was after.

But what's the deal with Jygallag's sphere being "order"? - I was under the impression the divines (Aedra?) embodied order and stasis, while the Daedra embodied change. So how come there is now a daedric prince of order, it seems counter-intuitive.

I figure that maybe the spheres arn't so immutable as that, but looking at a lot of the books, (granted that have mortal writers) it seems the gods (or "greater spirits" if the psijic are more accurate) are tied in with their sphere like D&D Gods, in that they derive their power from the faith and souls of their petitioners who enter their dominion either through direct worship or because of a tendancy towards that god's nature, ie. madness, lawfulness. We often see daedra vying to "claim" individuals souls like a game which seems to reinforce that link between faith/followers and the (d)aedra's influence. That also brings about a second question "If Jygallag has been out the picture for so long as to be virtually forgotten by all but a few residents of the isles, and order is now in the hands of the divines will he still get any share of the power?". If of course his symbols of office and his nature overrule the divines claim to order, does that mean we'll see the divines suddenly lose any of their power and influence that holding the order "station" granted them? (Presumably 2 or more god-like entities cannot directly share the same sphere of influence)



...of course it could just be that the player in the Shiverring Isles is like the khajiit girl in Fellmoor. Convinced they are ruler of the isles, when the reality is they have gone quite mad and are just another denizen of the madgod's realm and anything you saw or did was in your own mind which is a great way to shoo away any apparent inconsistencies.
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Toby Green
 
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Post » Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:13 am

But what's the deal with Jygallag's sphere being "order"? - I was under the impression the divines (Aedra?) embodied order and stasis, while the Daedra embodied change. So how come there is now a daedric prince of order, it seems counter-intuitive.
Just like Lorkhan is Padomaik Aedra (don't belive Mankar, :)).
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Rude Gurl
 
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Post » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:17 pm

Well in the words of Sheogorath from SI, hes the boring kind of order. And trust me boredom can be a horrible thing.
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Ricky Rayner
 
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Post » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:06 pm

But what's the deal with Jygallag's sphere being "order"? - I was under the impression the divines (Aedra?) embodied order and stasis, while the Daedra embodied change. So how come there is now a daedric prince of order, it seems counter-intuitive.

That right there is where you are reading the wrong books. Do not think of the daedra as change and aedra as stasis. As far as you are concerned, at one point in time, they're nearly all the same for intents and purposes. Being creators and changers are just aspects of what they do and did in terms of Mundus.

Now, how you should classify daedra and aedra is WHAT they did. By this, I mean http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-monomyth At first, everyone was just collectively known as et'Ada. During the creation of Mundus, three groups came out:
  • Aedra: They created Mundus. To do this, they "cut off pieces" of themselves, and are heavily weakened by it. They're known as creators, only because they created Mundus. In the merrish language, it translates to "our ancestor."
  • Daedra: These spirits laughed at Shor's idea of creating Mundus, and did not participate in the creation of Mundus. Instead, they took to Oblivion, where the princes created their respective realms using themselves. By doing this, they have full power over their realm, as they are their realm, and are not weakened in anyway. The lesser daedra (anyone not a price) did the same, except they didn't make their own realms, and just hang with a prince. They're only change, in the sense that they change Mundus. In the merish language, daedra means "Not our ancestor."
  • Magna-Ge: These are the spirits that fled to the Aetherius and created the stars and sun. However, the thing is, the stars and the sun are just tears in Oblivion that lead to the Aetherius when the Magna-Ge fled, with the sun being Magnus's hole. These holes continuously leak magicka to Oblivion and Mundus. As for the Magna-Ge themselves, don't expect them to be nice or anything, they actually would want mortals dead. Mehrunes Dagon, in fact, may be a side of Magnus, but that's for a later discussion. In addition, the Magna-Ge have a big #1 they strictly enforce, no communicating with outsiders (anyone from Oblivion and Mundus). In fact, Meridia used to be a Magna-Ge, but her dad, Magnus, tossed her out for "consorting with illicit spectra," which I could only assume to be something not of the Aetherius.

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Sandeep Khatkar
 
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Post » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:07 pm

They're all the aftermath of Anu and Padomay. Jyggalag is simply more Anuic than his sibling Daedra.
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stacy hamilton
 
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Post » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:31 pm

That right there is where you are reading the wrong books. Do not think of the daedra as change and aedra as stasis. As far as you are concerned, at one point in time, they're nearly all the same for intents and purposes. Being creators and changers are just aspects of what they do and did in terms of Mundus.

*snip long useful text*


Thanks for setting that in order, makes a lot more sense now why the "planes" are organised the way they now. If the daedra and their respective realms are purely manifestations of that prince's will then their "sphere" presumably is equally whimsical? - The fact they embody certain concepts like madness or order is entirely because that Daedra wanted it to be so, not because they represent any structure of sorts (for comparrisons sake in Planescape each god has a unique portfolio for the sake for divying up the petioners souls, having 2 gods representing the same thing causes problems, the daedra have no such reason for representing different concepts right it's just how it turned out).

It's implied in the dialogue with Haskil that the isles are now an extension of the player as represented through the manipulate weather ability, presumably then if that's the case and the isles/player character are now one and the same like a daedric prince the player could reshape the isles and it's purpose to his will (Not that it can happen within the game engine's limitations)
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Captian Caveman
 
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Post » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:44 pm

The prince's realm is the prince and the prince is the prince's realm. Sheogorath is the Shivering Ilse, and the Shivering Ilse is Sheogorath. Mehrunes Dagon is the Badlands, and the Badlands is Mehrunes Dagon. That Scottish guy sitting on the seat of madness is nothing more than an avatar for mortals to comprehend. If Sheogorath wanted to, he could change that avatar into a talking piece of cheese, a cloud, the raidn, Burnt Face Man, or some unspeakable horror that warps the minds of all who gave upon his image.

So to answer your question, it is presumed that the Champion of Cyrodiil becames the daedric prince, Sheogorath, unless it becomes word of goded that something else happened. However, http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1096021-arden-sul, which is a lot more complete and thorough.

Also, the princes are the concepts, for they are concepts shaped and perceived by mortals. Even though the princes refused to do anything with Mundus, save for laugh at it, they were changed by its creation and continued existence.
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Emmanuel Morales
 
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