When I first discovered the Enclave's headquarters at the Oil Rig back in Fallout 2, my first reaction was: "Wow! These guys have some seriously advance gear!". When I learned that I have to nuke the Oil Rig to defeat the Enclave, I couldn't help but feel sad about all the lost opportunities and progress that the destruction of such a technologically advance base represents. The same though occurred to me when I was at Raven's Rock in Fallout 3.

Just look at the main quest for NCR, for example. The difference between them getting access to Vault 15 or not was large. If they managed to get access to it, they will be able to expand north and eastward, becoming a major power plus bring progress to almost the entire Core Religion. If they didn't, the Republic nearly collapsed. And remember, Vault 15 has already been gutted out years ago and doesn't even have their own GECK anymore, but it still made such a big difference.

My point is that the Enclave with all it's pre-war resources can easily resort law and order to large sections of America if they wanted to. Now that they have been defeated for 2 times in a role by the 'mutants', wouldn't the surviving members of their leadership think that 'You know, perhaps we should give up our plans for a final solution against the rest of the world and become a real government'?

In Fallout 2, if you have a high enough speech skill you can convince the Enclave Scientist that came up with the idea of the new FEV that it is wrong to commit genocide. Also, in Van Buren there were going to be survivors of the Enclave that decided to actually help rebuild America instead of focusing on killing all outsiders.

So do you think that the Enclave will be able to change their ways and become a somewhat benevolent dictatorship that resorts civilization (Similar to the New California Republic)? Or will they fight to the bitter end until every last one of their members either died, deserted, or surrendered?

The Enclave could restore the wasteland and do an even better job than the BOS who will not share technology with 'tribals' only bettering themselves (which helps no one IMO) but for them to really help they would have to dispose of this blind hatred for impure beings (which extends to people who have just been living in the wastes) and yes I believe eventually they would because a lot of the radical members Richardson, Eden etc. are gone there is hope in Autumn i'd say he does have see a better future for all wastelanders

Possibly, however the East Coast BOS are essentially the same as a "nice Enclave" in that if the Enclave became benevolent, whatever they would be doing would already be covered by the East Coast BOS. The only real difference would be that the BOS don't want to restore America like the Enclave do.

Either way, I don't think the Enclave's resources are large enough anymore for them to really do anything, good or bad. I'm sure they still exist, but I think it's too late for them to change their tune.

The problem with the Enclave as they are as the moment is the fact that anyone who isnt born into the enclave does not meet their standard of "human".

Certain members of the Enclave may be able to be turned, but the majority will never follow.

Could there be another organisation out there with links to the former US government (which may even have its own president of the US), thats possible. But the Enclave will always be the bad guys, until they are no more (which I hope they already are).

If they change, they won't be Enclave... They'll be East Coast BoS...

The problem with the Enclave (at least the original group in FO2) is that they have no real connection with outsiders. Like a Nazi party with plasma rifles, they have been raised and taught to believe they are the the last elements of humanity. By thriving on xenophobia and isolation, their only view of outsiders is that they are ignorant dangterous mutants who wander the wastelands killing and and enslaving eachother. For them, it is far more pragmatic to 'cleanse' the wastelands than risk 'infection'. That's their purpose as explicitly laid down by the pre-Great War U.S. Government.

In FO3, the Enclave change their tune and attempt to take power through more conventional means, but its still made clear 'mutants' have no place in their new world order.

If there was a splinter group, they wouldn't really be the Enclave per se. It would be like declaring yourself 'compassionate Antisemites'. Instead, they would rename themselves and redesign their entire outlook. But yes, I can see a 'nice Enclave' type of group, though I think this role is already filled by the New California Republic.

I am not going to vote yes or no, just because the fact of new info coming from future fallout games. I do think that the Eastern BOS or the NCR can fix the problems they have and bring order and balance to the wasteland. If the Enclave can somehow become "good guys" so can the NCR.

I think the Brotherhood of Steel, before and after the split was the "good" version of the Enclave. They have ties to the American military and therefore the government before the bombs dropped, so they can be considered a relative of the Enclave with kleptomaniac tendencies towards technology.

The difference is the (W)BOS isn't a government, and they didn't have any intention of becoming one.

They are actually Deserters - they broadcasted their intention to desert the US army and where shocked when they were not attacked.

I didn't know that. Thanks!

At least the enclave has an objective, purify the wasteland from radiated creatures (including humans) so non-radiated/mutated (enclave) can take their place and start a generation of pure humans. Sure, most people don't like the fact that they have to die because of that, but it's still better than the east coast BOS crap. Yaay, help locals! Our objective? Well uuh, after we help these guys we... well... i quess we could start that water purifier so we could help the locals some more. Sure, the enclave is banging on our door, but think about the locals!

If clarity of mission statement is all you're looking for or care about, then yes, the Enclave has the advantage in "kill everyone who isn't us." It's clear, simple, and omnicidal.

Enclave was never "evil". It is even kinder than anyone else.
There is nothing about "fascism" also. If you will think about it a little more, you'll understand.
Gene pool: humanity will continue mutating for a quiet big time(until radiation half-life), which will strongly affect humans in future(It is strange what it is already don't). There are various of reasons why humanity may collapse in future(consequences of radiation sickness\cross-generation mutations), including such things like sterility. Of course humanity may adapt by time, but it will be never as it was before.
After all there are NO good people on wastelands at all.Raiders, BOS, etc. Yes, there are still few people here and there, who is seating at their small poor houses and sometimes doing some farming, but... There is nothing bad at sacrificing fews for greater good.
After cleaning wastelands from.. waste, there is a nice soil for building better world.

I have to agree that the Enclave isn't really evil, at least not anymore.

People like to forget that the East Coast Enclave is actually quite a bit "shades of gray" in their actions. It was the West Coast that wanted to spread FEV and kill everyone. Colonel Autumn, the human and de facto leader of the East Coast Enclave, wanted to seize the purifier to cause the people of the Wasteland to look to the Enclave for order and government. It was only the supercomputer that wanted to kill everyone; by then the rest of the Enclave had learned their lesson.

Granted, they're still quite brutal in their ideology and methods, but the East Coast Enclave is actually "shades of gray" to a degree in terms of what they want to do.

I really, really don't understand the charges against the East Coast Enclave being like "black and white outright villains" or "saturday morning cartoon villains" when the West Coast Enclave was trying to poison the entire GLOBE. The East Coast just wanted total control over the D.C. area, NOT genocide.

That's one reason I like NV more than fo3. (Not to get into one of those rampant, insulting "A WAS BETTER THAN B" discussions)
The Enclave there *wasn't* entirely evil, it would have been great to have the option to join them, or at the very least, to not destroy them.
I feel like NV's plot allowed for MUCH greater moral choice.

Killing and experimenting of civilians, attacking everyone they see on sight, attempted to commit the worst genocide in history..... What nice people! :facepalm:

And if you played in original Fallout or New Vegas, you will know about the New California Republic and the Followers of Apocalypse. Those guys are way nicer then the Enclave and actually do things to help the common people.


A dictatorship that rules with an iron fist and is willing to kill innocents for being 'impure'. Sounds really fascist to me.


I will use the quotes from the Chosen One when he comforted the Enclave president in Fallout 2. So the people of the wasteland are mutants. So what? Just because everyone out there doesn't have an exact copy of your DNA that doesn't give you a license to exterminate them. Creatures change all the time. It's called evolution. Without that change you and I would still be two bits of protoplasmic goo. Maybe the 'mutants' are changing into a better version of the human race that can survive in the wasteland more effectively. Did you ever think of that?


Again, the NCR and the Followers. I'm actually speechless from what I am reading. You might seriously think what you wrote is correct, I am sorry to say, but you are very uninformed. I suggest that you read up on the lore and canon in the Fallout wiki. It is there for a reason.

The NCR are already the 'good guys'. Well... at lease as good as you can get without being completely dysfunctional like the Followers of Apocalypse or the East Coast Brotherhood.

Idea of having this pseudo-vaults is not Enclave's one, it is pre-war US goverment's one. 'Attacking everyone on sight' - wrong. They are attacking only muties. Worst genocide in history? Whats bad in clearing the world out of mutants?
I know, if Fallout 2's happenings took place in real life, and i could be born outside Enclave or vaults, i could be counted as a mutant, and that is true. If i had the same way of thinking, i could easily sacrifice yourself for greater good(Yup, thats sounds fanatic),
After all: How can't you love Enclave after this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y1neKU87Uk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrCG1_kemEM
etc
Franky is so cool and badass... But when you talk to Enclave solider or whomever else from Enclave, you will see, what they are not monsters like you are trying to say here.

Also, Enclave *was* the most intelligent of all the factions, they invented a loads of things like new power armor(Which is a way better than this pre-war crap... Huh, and they did it 3 times(F2, F3 , F3 Hellfire armor), plasma weapons etc, FEV Curling-13 after all. They also can produce vertibirds, and they also factured mobile base crawler...

NCR - they are nicer than Caesar legion. I think i can even assume what they are very good in some ways. The only con: they are very weak in manpower mean, and in technological meaning.
Followers of Apocalypse... They are like teenager's movement. Blah-blah, sometimes doing some minor things(not affecting whole the picture) imaging yourself like a part of something big. Actually they are doing nothing.

You are talking like dictatorship is something bad.

Nope. Just because they are polluting our gene pool. And of course, FEV, thought it was designed to kill only "mutants"(Except human-like), its still kills... Mutants? Can't be just an unfortunate incident.

There are few examples around the world which is presenting this changes to better version of the human race as it is:
Nagasaki, Hiroshima, Chernobyl. In first both were a nuclear bomb(Dropped by USA), and the third had an AES goes boom. People here evolutioning with everyday. They represents the best variant of human what can be at all: epic illness(Including awesome evolution result, which gives them a lot of new opportunities called sterility).

"Muties" = everyone/thing not Enclave. Did you miss that memo?



"Just doing my job" didn't work at Nuremburg, it doesn't work on the Enclave rank and file.



So they still have an industrial base. That justifies their atrocities... how?



Not seeing it... Kill anything not Enclave on sight, experiment on those you find useful, consider anyone not of you beneath you... The only thing they don't do that Caesar does is enslave.



It is. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Power like that will always go to the head.



Entirely relative. The "mutants" evolved to better suit their environment. If anything, the evolutionarily obsolete Enclave should be wiped out.

The Enclave is a fascist paramilitary cabal of people descended from pre-war elites and their minions, who ended up causing the Great War and aim to clean up the resulting mess by committing more atrocities.

Well, they've got no problems scooping up whole settlements for heinous medical experiments. They've also got no trouble rounding people up to work for no pay in their FEV mines. Err, excavation of the military base.

Besides, they buy slaves too. Sure they may not "technically" enslave people, but what they do is pretty much slavery by another name.

No. They also don't kill people from Vault, only if not really needed to and not a part of their experiment. Yup, i saw F2 intro(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3PXiV95kwA), but the ending, thought it is funny and id really liked it, makes no sense, confronting to what i saw ingame in both F2 and F3.



What do you meant when said 'Nurember'? Nazi Germany? If so, it didn't really failed. They just did a fatal mistake attacking the strongest country in the world at that moment. But comparing Germany and Enclave is kind of stupid. If you are trying to compare exactly 'Nazism', Enclave is NOT nazi. It has whites, blacks, asians... Whats your point?


Without them humanity will still falling even deeper into stone age. They are the only "group" at fallout universe what still looks like civilized country .


Oh. That's some pseudo-democratic crap you heard somewhere on TV while watching some cartoon about Tom and Jerry.
Dicatorship CAN ruin everything. But it is depends on governor. The best example is USSR. While it was under Stalin's, and probably Hrushev's rule, it was the strongest country in the world. But when there are appeared a full blown @ssholes in the government... There are no longer USSR, you see.
After all, all strongest country in the past and now had\has a dictatorship. Thought they can say they haven't it, but whatever.



Mutants can't evolve. If you think so, you most join to Master's army, it is ideally compared to your views.


lol. I said 'lol' to make me looks more polite, but your joke is not funny at all.

The Enclave has absolutely no problem killing people from the vaults. In Fallout 2 they experimented on the vault 13 dwellers they captured, and in Fallout 3, if you blow up Vault 101, there's a random encounter where you see Enclave troops gun down Amata.



The NCR seems to be doing pretty well. Corrupt, like any real government is, but in a choice between throwing my lot in with the Enclave or throwing my lot in with the NCR, I'd choose the NCR every time.



That's not a joke. That's pretty much a list of everything they did in Fallout 2. Oh, add in "murder people who don't cooperate with them" as shown by the first time you see Horrigan.

Seriously. The Enclave are not a nice organization.

There's nice people in the Enclave much as there were nice people in the Nazi party, I'm sure, but the organization as a whole is not remotely nice.

"good Enclave" sounds a little like "good Nazis" IMO.

The BOS are nuetral self serving and uncaring in there quest to better themselves.

The Enclave are pure evil in their quest to "wipe clean all the inhuman filth" that doesn't match their standards of genetic purity. All I have ever seen or heard of the Enclave represents genecidal maniacs who safeguarded all that technology before the war. There are even rumors that they had a hand in the Great War which is a possibility since they were the shadow government prior to the war.

Sure individual members can be reformed and repent but the Enclave as a whole will never change as long as they are still the Enclave.

Your right it is a waste but that is the very definition of war...and war never changes...

Enclave change to become a 'nicer' organization? Naw. I rather they stick with the same idea that the organization overall seen "evil" in their motive. That or I rather not wanted to see those guys again and remain just a story of them being a boogyman to scare little children.

My main problem with that is that the Enclave's motivations have been repeatedly shown to not work two (three if counting BS) times, via a boot to the head. If the next game has the Enclave trying their FEV plan again, I am going to be really disappointed, because apparently they learned nothing from at least two hugely crushing defeats.