I'm looking at purchasing 3DS Max but have been holding off until I found out what file format Skyrim was going to use. We now have confirmation that Bethesda is going to continue to use NIF. The problem is that NIF is only supported via third party plugins that are no longer being developed for 3DS Max. I was wondering if anyone could tell me which tools Bethesda uses? Is it possible to purchase a proper NIF plugin for 3DS Max? My preference would be to purchase the 64 bit version of 3DS Max, but I don't believe there is a working plugin for that version at all.

While NIF files are on the topic. I have some questions about NIF for those who know a lot about it.

1. Is it easier/harder to make a good hi-polygon mesh as a NIF than other mesh-formats?

2. Can a mesh-format be "better" than other mesh-formats?

There's already a discussion the use of nif format http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1177127-we-still-use-the-nif-file-format-because-it-worked-fine-for-what-were-doing-and-our-modders-know-it-well/, but to answer your questions...

First, I don't think it really matters what program Bethesda is using. They have yet to release their own exporter, which means the tools we have are all third party. They seem to focus on Blender because, well, it's free and so more widely available.

As for hlvr's questions, different file types can contain within them different types or amounts of information. Some, like the obj file type contain very little beyond the mesh. The nif format contains the information for it to function in the game. So in that sense, sure, some formats can be better than others. How high-poly the mesh is isn't really relevant.

Bethesda Game Studios uses 3dsMax as far as I know. But any of the mainstream ones have plug-ins to export to .nif format. Also, nifskope, the tool you use to manage the nifs and set them up, can import several common file types like .obj, then export those as nif's itself.

Then perhaps you could point me to the Maya ones? I can't seem to find them. At least ones that aren't outdated and sub-par.

I figured Bethesda used 3DS Max as well, which is why I was wondering what they used for the NIF plugin. Now I admit I haven't approached AutoDesk and asked about a commercially available plugin. However when I search their site, nothing comes up.

I use NifSkope all the time and that's fine. I would like to know which modelling tool Bethesda uses and if they do use 3DS Max, what they are using for the NIF plugin. It's possible to develop your own plugins, but it requires intimate knowledge of the file format, which even the NifSkope team doesn't have. They have figured out a good portion of it, but you'll notice there are still a large number of "unknown Int" entries.

In the trial version of 3DS Max 2011 that I used, it did not seem to have support for NIF. Perhaps I was not looking in the right place.

You mean they're kind of reverse-engineering the program?

Bethesda's exporter has not been released and probably never will be. It likely makes use of too many middleware features like Havok. So don't expect to see one from them any time soon. That means the Nifskope team's exporter is all you have. 3ds Max does not have a native Nif exporter. Neither does Maya, nor does Blender.

Ok, well then I'd like Bethesda to release the specs for the Net Immerse File format so that we can write our own plugin! We don't know what half the options of NIF do, we're just guessing. And when it comes to writing a plugin for 3DS Max, Maya or Blender, you need more than just guesses.

To answer Benrahir's question: yes, the NifSkope team is RE'ing the NIF. They've figured out what the various elements do by changing them and seeing what effect that has on the model. For many of the unknowns, they haven't been able to figure out what changing them does. SaidenStorm is the guy to talk to about that.

Unfortunately development of the NIF exporter for 3DS Max and Maya stopped a long time ago. And I don't wish to use Blender.

If you don't want to buy your tools, there are plenty of freeware tools you can use that are very nice. Nifskope is really nice and very simple to use. But if you want to have a leg up in modding, I suggest getting Maya also, such an amazing program. Buy it...BUY IT NAOUGH! :tongue:

It doesn't matter. Skyrim won't be using NIF files because those are native to the Gamebryo renderer. Considering Bethesda is scrapping Gamebryo for their new in-house Creation Engine, we don't even know what kind of mesh format they will be using, nor if it's common or will require an exporter. Point is, if it's a common file, then most modeling programs will support it natively. If it's something unique to Bethesda this time around, then they'll probably release the exporter for 3DS Max at least (because that is the program they use over there). If it's something else, then it really depends on the company that owns the format. Most of the time you need to pay groups like that for the rights and an exporter, so we probably wouldn't have one given to us.

Todd Howard has already confirmed in the IGN interview published yesterday that Skyrim will be using NIF.

You apparently missed yesterday's article. Todd announced that they WILL be using the nif file format, because they know that modders are familiar with it.

@Sleign - That's not even what the discussion is about. The Op wants a superior nif exporter, specifically Bethesda's. It has nothing to do with free or paid for programs.

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I've also said I already use NifSkope and I'm not interested in using Blender. I would like to buy 3DS Max. I already know how to use AutoCAD, so I am more comfortable with Max's interface. However there's no sense shelling out the cash for 3DS Max if I'm not going to be able to use it for Skyrim. I would also prefer to get the 64 bit version, and there isn't even a functioning NIF plugin for that. Note I said "functioning". I know someone attempted to recompile the 32 bit version of the plugin for 64 bit, but the results weren't all that great.

I do feel for you, Andalaybay. My modeller of choice is Maya. It may just be that you'll have to settle for the round about method of exporting your models as an obj to Blender, then exporting from there as a nif. It's not much fun, but it works.

We have more than enough spec covered for nifs to have working exporters, the Blender scripts work just fine. (Max/Maya work fine, they're just outdated) You don't need to use Blender to do your work, there's no reason you can't model in another app, and use Blender for the final export.

Many of the unknowns that do nothing are either not used by a particular game, or actually do nothing, making it hard to pinpoint things I believe the majority of the missing sections are in Bethesda's implementation of Havok, which they certainly won't release a specification for.

The latest version of Max that is supported officially by NIFTools is 2010. Someone hacked together an unsupported x64 plugin for 2011, but beyond that it hasn't been touched since June last year.

They have pre-release builds in the development forums on the NIFTools board. My 2010 x32 is using v3.5.5.4728.

Have you considered looking for an older version of Max? I use Max 9, and never had any problems with the NifTools plugin - and I have it on good authority that it works fine with Max 2010 (don't know about 2011). These are 32-bit versions, though.

If there's no work-around for x64 Max, maybe you could send your scene files or exported meshes to someone you trust, and have them export with NifTools for you?
Edit: Or bring the meshes into Blender for NifTools stuff...

I'd disagree with that. If you look at the list of what the Maya exporter could do, it never did have the full functionality of the Max or Blender version. Of course, that's really neither here nor there, since it's outdated, anyways.

Yeah, I have to admit though, that I like the new features offered by Max 2011. And it would perform a lot better if I could get the 64 bit.

I used the v3.5.5.4728 build and it worked quite well. My trial was the 32 bit version. I was just hoping that if we could get the spec, then we could write a proper plugin that would allow the new features to be used. My husband has offered to write the plugin, but he'd need the NIF specs.

Perhaps your husband ought to get in touch with the Nifskope team to work with them on a 64 bit Max version of nifTools?

Could you convince your husband to take up the mantle of Niftools Max Developer in general for all of us Maxers? Pleeeze?

As for the pertinent bits of info on the NIF format, NifTools is open-source.

http://niftools.sourceforge.net/wiki/NifTools

NIFTools has laid pretty fallow for several months mainly because there's been no new developments requiring updates. FONV works well enough with the existing FO3-compatible exporters and NIFSkope.

Apparently I have missed the article then. I suppose this is what happens when I'm too busy with schoolwork to read new things

I just have to wonder why they're sticking with Gamebryo's mesh format, but are ditching Gamebryo itself. There's not really too much to be familiar with when it comes to meshes.

But when it comes to exporters, I'm sure Bethesda paid for the one they use. Emergent (owners of Gamebryo) probably gave them exporters as part of a licensing deal. If you want Bethesda's exporter, you'll probably have to pay unless Bethesda made their own. If Bethesda made their own, it's for 3DS Max.

The Nif format is more than just meshes. There's a lot of imbedded information that tells the game how to handle that mesh. It's that information that modders are familiar with. There are also tools built by third parties for manipulating that information. Sure, they'll probably all have to be updated for a new Nif version, but they're already started. That makes jumping in and modding that much faster.