After much careful and deliberate consideration, I've decided I am confused.

If it is possible that the Aedra were weakened/trapped/killed/escaped/transformed after the creation of Nirn, why are they able to talk to us in Oblivion when their statue is activated?

Are the Nine Divines aspects of the Aedra rather than the Aedra? Does worship provide them with power? Does my question make any sense?

Except for Akatosh, and temple alters, we don't really have any conversations with the 8 and 1 themselves. (well the prophet may or may not be Talos...)

Are you thinking perhaps of the Shrine quests? if so those are Daedra, and did not participate in the creation of Nirn. They just screw with it's inhabitants.

Yeah, you must be thinking of the Daedric Princes. I've never talked to any of the Nine Divine, even in the Knights of the Nine expansion.

Lorkhan is a Padomaic Aedra...if what happened to him is anything to go by, the death of an Aedra is not the same as the death of a mortal...

Lorkan roams the world in disembodied form and continues to affect Nirn

I believe the same goes for the other Aedra who "died" during the creation of Mundus.

They have their ways of communicating with mortals, which is different from the daedra

While I do not remember Aedra talking in Oblivion there was http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:A_Lucky_Coin.

There was also Ama Nin, in Berandas, a possible aspect or avatar of Mara.
And Jon Hawker in Nammu, who was one for Zenithar.

I'd think the use of a mortal as an avatar would require less power than talking through a statue, since the mortal already contains a piece of the Aedra's spirit.
The avatar is simply a vessel by which the aedra can collect a larger fraction of its soul and directly influence nirn, while the daedric shrines would require invasive magics against barriers that prevent their influence.

The Aedra need no avatars (unless they have to show a troublesome Daedra the door) for every waking moment in the Mundus is an encounter with the divine. When you experience true beauty, Dibella is whispering sweetly in your ear. Long nights pouring over tomes by candlelight is a private lesson with Julianos. Staying your blade when your opponent has already fallen is Stendarr's intervention. I could go on.

Of course, these are Imperial gods, propaganda machines that promote the values of Empire. I liken it to building a shelter, you take the natural world and shape it to your purposes. The Tamrielic Empire is a fortress against Oblivion, and the Nine are its walls, natural genii quarried and cut into blocks like granite.

Maybe I've gone mad. I am actually talking about the nine divine shrines but maybe it never happened.

Let's just assume I've gone mad until further notice.

And http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:The_Prophet.


Maybe they only spoke to you!

You know what, do you think he means that little popup that shows when you "pray" at a wayshrine?

Since the Prophet is probably Talos, he isn't an aedra. He's a divine, but not an aedra.

Prophet=Talos
Talos=Lorkhan

So by the transitive property...

How was Talos Lorkhan? The closest I hear is that he may of been the Shezzarine like Pelenial (spelling?)

He mantled him, also. I think it was Wulfharth who was the Shezarrine, but he also played a part in mantling him with Hjati.

I really have to look more into stuff about Talos.

At different times, all the members of the oversoul of Tiber Septim (Hjalti, Zurin Arctus, Wulfarth/Ysmir) held the mantle of Lorkhan.

Tiber Septim became the god Talos by mantling Lorkhan. In the mythical sense, he IS Lorkhan. He occupies the same role.

Indeed. It's just that Lorkhan created the primeval world; Septim created the modern world.

AH that makes sense now, thanks :thumbsup:

I do mean a pop up but I'm still of the opinion that they only spoke to me.

That's what happens when temple enchanters have too much free time on their hands. They make altars speak telepathically to you.

Although they're not the Nine, the head garden in the Emperor's Arboretum allows all the Emperors to talk with the Ninth Divine and his descendents.

The garden itself reminds me of the subsidiary mortuaries in Ubik. A person can be induced into a coma before death, stored in environmental pods, and spoken to by the living.* The heads' themselves were inspired by the mystical head of John the Baptist.


It's pretty damn sad they replaced this with the place in Oblivion and the Amulet's Oversoul.


*It's actually cooler than this. When the precognitive and psychic potential of mankind is discovered and realized, psychic explorers find the ether of Tibetan myth and the comatose wander it and enjoy something like a heaven before entering the fire of rebirth. It's still a very strained existence between life and death to maintain, and the pods help with this.

8 Divines were having a chat, they all felt Lorkhan, so he got up and left.

"Wulf doesn't yield any special items if you kill him, but interestingly he carries a decent amount of moon sugar."

hahaha