Or, BOTH are stationary, and Nirn ROTATES.

Haha, I forgot about that. :facepalm:
That (for me) is the most likely explanation, considering a hole orbiting or being orbited is physically impossible, unless it's not a hole in the literal sense.

Well, in a universe where planets aren't really planets but planes of gods, I don't find Nirn orbiting a hole too illogical.

I don't care?

Like I said "The whole cosmology document is a delightfully playful Borgesian spin on a very mundane subject. That, in case you were wondering, is cool." And cool is just as good as true.

The inverse of the whole "Boring and therefor wrong!" quip?

Yes. QED. That is to say, Questionable Eccentricity Dominates.

Actually, I don't see why the Oblivion version is wrong. The sky and stars work differently, but that doesn't mean that half of the moon mysteriously disappears when it's not a full moon. As for as we know, the moons work the same as on earth, with a shadow that is not transparent. (Granted, they seem to have a very odd system of having seperate shadows for each moon, but we'll ignore that.)

On a different subject: It's a story, folks.

Was the moon's transparency deliberate, or did was it unintended and the Cosmology text was written to try to justify it?

Written to justify it? I'd sneer if so much of the creative process didn't occur in strange, roundabout ways like that. Maybe it was written because of that. But the word would not be 'justified,' it would be 'inspired.' It's lore now, and it doesn't matter why or how it was written because that [censored] has nothing to do with Nirn.

This argument is so far fetched. But currently this is a double sided argument. There is no absolute proof that without a doubt that Nirn is flat and/or orbits a star. But there is no absolute proof for the opposite either

Well, didnt read the hole thread but just a theory:

When you stand out at sea in real world, you can see at the horizont that its bended, which is a proof the earth is round.
Now, I really dont think bethesda tough of this, but you can always try

There's no absolute proof you read the topic or bothered to use a bit of deductive reasoning.

There is, however, a whole lot of evidence you did not read the topic or bothered to use a bit of deductive reasoning to question whether Nirn was thinner than your statement.

There is also evidence (not proof) through the use of telescopes, knowledge of the spherical nature of other celestial objects, and the existence of a working model of the universe in the form of the orrery (making predictions from the data is a way of proving a scientific hypothesis) that Nirn is not flat. There is no similar evidence that says Nirn is flat.

As for the Cosmology document about just how spherical is spherical... you can choose to disbelieve it. Although it's like disbelieving the Terminator wasn't from the future because no one can seriously travel back in time. It also stamps you as so booooooriiing I wouldn't even mention I had a party going on because you'd spoil it just by thinking about it.

So all along, starting with Arena up to Oblivion, we've just been a figment of some supernatural being's imagination? That makes this entire game series absolutely pointless then if it isn't even real.

Is that what you're implying?

Every now & then, I stumble into Lore section; coincidentally, every now & then my headache factor raises by 20.

Let's say, for the sake of my own logical reasons, Nirn is not a perfect sphere, but more like Earth - flat on poles, excentric rotation axis, and I have no friggin' idea if it revolves about something. [hole? what hole?]

Damn you for not making them 1024x768. Otherwise, the Akavir one would be my next wallpaper.

edit: meh, screw it, I just centered the thing It still shows the landmass nicely.

Cosmic Banana will be pleased.

It isn't real; it's a game

There are so many conflicting ways I want to respond to this.

Yes that is what Albides is implying.

Well I don't believe it! That's Albides's view on it, not mine! To me, Nirn and Aurbis is real and it's not just a dream that some overlord is having and when he wakes up he'll be saying, "Whoa, I just had the strangest dream about this mortal plane called Nirn with these heroes saving this empire called Tamriel..."

It's not really a 100% subjective view, it's lore and something that someone wrote with a motive and particular interpretation in mind. But if you don't understand something of metaphysics, you would do well to reject or ignore it. And when you do wrap your mind around it, you won't change your mind so much as see how it fit in with your understanding of Nirn all along. I speak from experience.

You can have whatever views you want, but only a certain spectrum is actually supported by all the evidence.

I don't get what you're saying.

What makes real? The people of Tamriell believes it to be real. They experience it as real. To them, it doens't matter if it is a Godhead's dream. Then how is the game pointless? Who are you to say it is not real?

On another note: Isn't it plausable to say that the "Godhead" is the player? It is in our heads that the world exists, really. Of course, inside the 'verse the "Godhead" would be somebody else.

It was Paw who implied it, but he had the good grace to overlook it. But I agree with it anyway, so that's not a problem.


See, the reason you're prepared to reject the idea is that it makes your experience seem less "real", by which I take it you mean illusory and transient. The problem here is there's no real with which to compare it. It isn't illusory or transient because there's no way of waking from the dream except by stepping outside of the game, but you're going to be doing that anyway while we're here talking to each other. There is, however, a way of controlling the dream. That overlord is you, the protagonist in your dream episode. The people you're talking to are also you. There's a reality, it's just a solipsistic reality. Your achievements are going to still have impact, but, what's more, you are capable of even greater achievements because of the awareness that you are a fragment of God. Yes, it's convoluted mental mastvrbation, but no, that's not necessarily a bad thing.


He's saying it's what the lore says. It's a common sort of theme and the texts have been gradually building up to it.

Fixed that for you.