Hi everyone. I am taking on a crazy large task, which is to get NoM fully integrated into TR in an actually functional manner. As of now, no wells from TR work, and neither do any of the new food ingredients. What I am also doing is I am going to be trying to make hand-painted textures for the new food and drink types NoM introduces. The meshes and textures for bottles that come with NoM do not fit the vanilla asthetic, and some of the food textures do not either. They are very well made, but just not to my liking. I am also replacing the crate containers that NoM uses in the food shops it adds and I am going to be having the actual ingredients replaced into empty wooden boxes. The Imperial water pump is also getting a texture redo, as the textures it has now do not fit vanilla asthetics very well either. There will be a sound replacement file as well that PeterBitt so kindly gave me, too, because the sound of pulling a bottle/jug out of a watersource before was very low quality.

I just need help with getting some new meshes for wells, as I want there to be 3 variants of Imperial wells, new Redoran well, 2 new Telvanni wells, 1 new Hlallu well, and I need a fully new Indoral well to use in larger hamlets in Indoral towns. I also want to make sure there are ovens in the towns, though I do not believe I would need any new meshes for those, unless someone would like to oblige. New recepies may come in due time as well, but that is not a priority at this moment. I will begin working in Telvanni territory and then I'll move my way south, then west, then north. More progress to come!

I can't tell You where I got it from right now - guess it's in one of the NOM updates - but there is a script to NOMify mods. It was written for TR as far I know. If You apply this script to TR in Wrye Mash most of the NOM features will work, but there are still few that don't.

From my own experiance I can tell You that all wells and waterfalls in the older Sacred East version work well, I can also use campfires to cook etc. Further into the south there are some new Indoril style wells that don't work and new waterfalls that are not NOMified.

It's great if You take on this and make TR truly NOMcompatible, just wanted to point to this older method. Maybe it's better to know about it early so You can eliminate possible future problems and conflicts.

Have a look around these parts for "Well Diversified" by Slartibartfast. It's a beta but (IIRC) there are some new well meshes in there (Imperial or similar style though).

Sounds good to me. I haven't used NOM or TR in the past, but I was planning to use both for my next character.

Wrye lets you NOM-ify stuff but I would prefer to go through and do it myself because I want to make sure every water source makes sense. I will take a look at the Indoril wells, wasn't aware they made some, which is interesting. I am really dreading doing this honestly but, well, if you want something done you gotta do it yourself, ya know? Haha. Thanks for the info, though!

Thanks Dragon, you always got some inside know-how and I appreciate it! I'll take a look into it.

Yeah, it's almost impossible to use NOM if you plan on using TR at this point; unless you carry a LOT of supplies, which breaks immersion and doesn't make sense anyway sooo... lol

I also am going to make a new hand-painted texture for the banner used on the new NOM shop buildings as they stand out in a vanilla configuration. I will make 2 separate banners, 1 for Imperial settlements and 1 for Dunmeri settlements, as it is in original MW. Lots of work ahead of me! ^__^

Some other wells:
http://mw.modhistory.com/download-31-6012 by crazyboy.
http://mw.modhistory.com/download-55-12497 by Nicholiathan.

There's also one I downloaded from Wiwiland ages ago "Puit Hlaalu" By Aubustou (made in 2005). Can't find a current link though.

Minamir made an iron stove (more of a wood burner really) and there are some cauldrons by Midgetalien (texture paths need fixing) and kalikut. Not sure of many ovens though, let me know if you can't find links and I can see if I can.

Couldn't find well diversified Dragon, im thinking maybe he delated the thread as well as I dant track it down from his profile...

Your search fu is weak, old man: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1453777-relz-well-diversified-beta/

you da real MVP, thanks buddy!

Actually I think it's more that the search function here's a bit screwy at the moment. I searched for threads with "win the title and got a whole load which didn't match that criteria

I must caution you, that if your NoM mod will replace TR objects... you will run into problems with the replacing. We're having this trouble with Morrowind Crafting 3...

what do you mean by that? so far i have just unpacked the TR .bs and made new activators out of the well meshes and attached the appropriate well script to them...

what do you mean by that? so far i have just unpacked the TR .bs and made new activators out of the well meshes and attached the appropriate well script to them...

dracdrac9 posted about their woes http://www.gamesas.com/topic/258708-wrye-mash-users-guide-to-managing-mods/page-7#entry23835435, as of yet he's not provided the info abot asked for so there's no clue if it's possible to fix it yet.

The links to the info Abot asked for were provided to him via PM and are available at his convenience the next time he logs on.

I don't get it. What kind of info? Why something like this is sent via PMs instead of made public and help others with similar problems. I'm also doing TR addons by replacing objects, so I'm interested in any information regarding this taksk.

still, it will be faster to replace everything and then revert back unwanted stuff than other way around.

Because part of the requested info is the unreleased portion of my WIP, which I'm not ready to make publicly available yet. While I can easily understand your concern (particularly being one of the people affected by this situation), I'm not ready to throw the doors on the project wide open just yet. I will, however, share any information on what can be done to either avoid or correct the problem once there is something to tell.

To clarify, the problem is that there are only four meshes for logs and eight wood types in MC3.0, so it isn't a simple matter of just using a global search and replace to swap the log statics with miscellaneous objects (unless I was willing to only make four types of wood available in the wild, which I'm not). Also, there is a pseudo-lore as to which logs come from which regions, so the proportion of wood types will change from one area to the next, making it somewhat difficult to even write a script that does a search-and-replace.

To further complicate matters, I'm also replacing the TR foods and iron ore (rocks and containers) added by TR that already existed in MC. This is necessary, because the TR items have different IDs and aren't compatible with the crafting scripts. Leaving them that way would be confusing to the end user, and making the scripts accept either variant would add a huge amount of complexity to a mod that is already VERY script-heavy (the .esp file for version 2.1 is only 3.4 MB while the .esp for version 3.0 is already 7.1 MB, most of which is script). Neither one is an acceptable solution. And because the meshes for the TR versions and the MC versions aren't the same, each one requires repositioning to make it appear correctly. I don't see any way that can be done with a script. For that reason, it's vital that I find a way to carry the replacements through from one revision to the next without having to redo them each time.

Toccatta, would it be easier to just replace Vvardnefell instances of iron ore with the TR ones? Or is it just as many references?

The problem is that the iron ore rocks themselves are very different, and I would have to hand-place every ore rock from Vvardenfell with one from TR. Not only would it be a massive undertaking (over 2000 iron ore rocks on Vvardenfell and Solstheim), but since it wouldn't address the issue of replacing logs on TR, it wouldn't solve the problem except with respect to the iron ore. I really need a solution that addresses all the items that need to be replaced.

As to which is more, I'm trying to keep the number of ore rocks on the mainland significantly less than on VVardenfell for two reasons:

1) Vvardenfell is actually a rather unpleasant place, all things considered, and getting miners to dig for iron ore when other far more valuable resources (like glass and ebony) are still plentiful is unrealistic.

2) I'm trying to preserve the significance of the various iron mines on the mainland by not being so free with the iron ore rocks except in areas designated by the TR team as being untapped or still active. It's my intention that much of the ore on the mainland has already played out.

So there's probably a whole bunch more iron ore rocks on Vvardenfell than on the mainland, although I don't know how long that will be true as I haven't taken a good look at the alpha release, so I don't know how many more iron mines are likely to be introduced.

we can work in conjunction together on this if you would like. i've been wanting to do an MCA update for TR as well, though that may be even more of an undertaking, but I think if we as a community worked together on this the workload and the burden would be a lot less. it is up to you, however.

Ah. My mistake.

If it turns out that Wrye Mash can't correct the internal IDs and this is going to be an endless string of updates, I may have to consider opening the project to a bigger team. I'd prefer to avoid that if possible, mostly because of the loss of creative control that is necessary with a large team vs a small one - consider how many compromises the TR team must make on any situation and how much discussion and debate they go through to resolve situations, and you'll understand where I'm going with that.

No, not really. To be honest, it did take us longer to get back to him than it should have. Drac and I are out of town, so the project materials are not as easily located, and with the holidays, things have been a bit hectic. It would have been more courteous to give higher priority to Abot's generous offer of assistance, particularly now that I see other projects are also looking to find answers to this same issue. I apologize for not responding in a more timely manner.

I can understand where you're coming from, but there will always be a system of making sure the initial creativity remains in tact. I think with a NoM, MC, and MCA overhaul to work with TR and maybe even make use of the possibilities of a post-1.0 OpenMW, we can do a lot as a community.

sorry, I missed that you were both discussing abot's post from another topic:

I'm looking forward for a working solution for TR problems, so thanks abot for spending your time on it.

Once again, Abot has worked his magic and now the project is back on track. I don't know if these instructions are a lot better than the previous ones, or if I just managed to pay better attention to them this time, but they turned the trick. MC3.0 [ WIP ] is now updated to work with Sacred East v1.6, and as promised, here is what can be done to correct the problem:

Note, the instructions were written for MC3, so I replaced the name of my .esp file with [ your mod ].

From Abot:

put in a folder:

TR_Data.esm from TR1.6 (it can overwrite the TR_Data.esm from previous version with no problems)

TR_Mainland_new.esm copied from TR_Mainland.esm in TR1.6 (the new one)

TR_Mainland.esm should be the TR1.5 one you used to create [ your mod ] (the old one)

[ your mod ] developed with TR1.5 (you can rename it if you want)

and copy them to your Data Files folder

- From Mash, make TR_Mainland_new.esm have the same timestamp of TR_Mainland.esm

- select and right click TR_Mainland_new.esm, Updaters, remove any previous updater if any, add TR_Mainland.esm

- select [ your mod ], right click in right column over TR_Mainland.esm master, Change to TR_Mainland_new.esm, save

- select TR_Mainland_new.esm, file, duplicate, overwrite TR_Mainland.esm

- select [ your mod ], right click in right column over TR_Mainland_new.esm master, Change to TR_Mainland.esm, save