Hi.

I′d like to know what you guys think about this subject. What are the chances and what could be the implications of the Dragonborn being elven or beast-folk?

thanks

ps-any indication of "literature" as in older threads and etc are welcome. I′m new here, and I don′t really visit any other forum.

It would depend largely on the mechanism that drives the Dragonborn blessing. Is is hereditary, or Ad hoc?


If hereditary, then it would mean there's been a rather long history of interracial breeding throughout Tamriel's history, something we've already known for awhile. The only possible revelations that could really come of this are Beast Race Dragonborn, as it would confirm that Khajiit and Argonians can breed with the other races (if we assume Miraak as the point of origin, and this start with Nords).


If it's Ad hoc... Well, it really just means that Aka doesn't really have any favourite race. Which, again, isn't really that revolutionary a discovery.

True.

I agree that if it has to do with biological blood, the most it could reveal would be something to do with the beastfolk, although a Dragonborn that′s loyal to the dominion can make a lot of difference in the second war.

But in case it′s a blessing, and it goes to the elves this time, wouldn′t that kind of show a preference considering that the last times it was given to men fighting elves?

It could be purely random. Aka is thoroughly shattered, so it is possible pieces of him find their way into the dreamsleeve and get mixed in with the normal souls being recycled. A random shard gets placed into a mortal and you have a dragonborn.

That′s interesting.

Isn′t the difference between who happens to be the dragonborn more meaningful than the hero in other games? It makes me wonder if something will happen that nullifies the difference.

The issue with an entirely random model is the line of succession for the Cyrodiiloc Empires. The likelihood of randomly recycled souls not causing a crisis of succession would be astronomical, particularly when it seems the Amulet of Kings takes in a Dragonborn soul when the wearer dies.

I don't see the contradiction, since they're not Shezzarines... at least, not necessarily.

Although the elves do seem to shy away from dragon associations (i.e. Auriel is a golden eagle).

The solution is that Emperors only become dragonborn after joining their soul with the oversoul contained within the Amulet of Kings.

But then why the problem with non-Dragonborn Emperors? What was stoping any schmuck who sat on the throne and tried to light the Dragonfires from succeeding, regardless of how good a ruler they were?


Being Dragonborn was a criteria for even being able to wear the Amulet.

The Septim Emperors being Dragonborn might have more to do with Tiber Septim himself than Akatosh. He might have been able to make his successors guaranteed Dragonborn with CHIM or some divine intervention after his apotheosis.


Or Akatosh uses his foreknowledge of the future to determine which Septims were going to become Emperors and make them Dragonborn as a mechanism of maintaining the Dragon Fires.

But then how do we explain the Remans? While brief, their dynasty did last through 4 consecutive descendants. And what little information we have about the Alessians indicates there as a lineage to their rule as well.




Yeah, though the question then becomes 'Why the Remans and Septims? Why not Varen Aquilarios or any of the other Emperors during the Interregnums?'. And this question becomes particularly problematic when you look at the periods of civil war and succession based conflicts during the 3rd Empire, when Akatosh is throwing around the Dragonborn Blessing like he's Oprah every time the throne changes hands.

Another interesting question is: without further information, if it turns out that the Dragonborn is an Argonian, would that be more likely to be telling us that it has nothing to do with blood but with blessing, or that men and argonians can have fertile offspring?

ps- i′m thinking here, and man, a dragonborn khajiit must be a xenophobic nord′s worst nightmare.

I think it would still be split either way. Some would argue it to be proof of viable iinterbreeding, others would argue it to he proof of Divine Intervention.


It's ultimately going to depend on what you believe beforehand, because I don't think the existence of an Argonian Dragonborn, alone, is enough to really support either side.


Even comming from 2 Argonan parents wouldn't really solve it, because you'd have to establish absolutely NO interbreeding anywhere along the family tree. On the flip side, having mixed race parents wouldn't do any better, because all of would do is prove that the races can interbreed, not that the Dragonblood is inherently hereditary.


The only real solution is either a situation which absolutely, conclusively disproves the hereditary aspect of the blessing (such as a known child of Dragonborn parents not having it) or a very clear spontaneous acquisition of it. You know, barring direct, outside confirmation from Bethesda.

Ahem, the Last Dragonborn WAS an Argonian...

Anyways, my money is on it being a blessing given to whomever Aka chooses instead of being hereditary. Katariah was a Dunmer Empress, and the Dragonfires didn't go out during reign, suggesting she was Dragonborn. She was not a descendant of the Septim line, but was married into it.

Ah, but she also had a son with Pelagius, who would have been a direct descendant, and her other son from a noble from Highrock, Cyssander, was cousin to a supposed direct-descendant (which would have had to have come from his fathers side, implying that his fathers side had Septim blood). There's also the question of whether or not the Septims were the only Dragonblood line at the time.

Too many unknowns to rule it out.

They should be less concerned with the cat folk than Argonians. Khajiit have a form of Akatosh in their pantheon, I think. Their mythos is still sort of partly shared with elves and men.

Just to add, I think Alessia was apparently hooked up to a minotaur.. and her descendants had that trait too. So there was a "bull man" emperor at one point.

I find it disgusting though personally. lol. I hate Bull mockups in fantasy especially.

Nords have historically been at odds with mer off and on for millennia, so they would probably hate an elvish dragonborn more. The caravans aren't allowed in the cities because they deal in stolen goods and drugs. Khajiit not affiliated with the caravans can just walk right in.

Is there any other Khajiit aside the possible dragonborn (and followers) inside the cities of skyrim? I can only think of the College.

One works the Solitude lighthouse. Shavari also has no trouble getting into Riften. I think Khajiit just don't like Skyrim much and prefer hot climates.

Like I've said elsewhere, I personally think it acts as both a blessing and a bloodline trait, acting as whatever is the most useful at any given time. Empire ruled by Dragonborn? Bloodline. Collapsing Empire with no surviving dragonborn descendants? Blessing.

It's not wholly a bloodline trait (we should've absorbed Potema's ghost if that was the case), but neither is it fully an individual blessing (mostly unbroken bloodline of sitting Emperors who could wear the Amulet of Kings, and at least a few of whom are basically throne-warmers. What god would want to bless a guy like that?) Unless there's a distinction between Dragon-blooded and Dragonborn, it seems to bounce between the two.

Well, that's assuming the questline was designed around the assumption that you were Dragonborn. Which... starts to get into some complicated issues between game design and lore implications.

There's also the issue of the fact that... Well... We still don't really understand exactly how Souls work in TES. If this was, say, Warhammer 40k, i could give a very precise account of the function and interaction of the Soul, what happens when you die, and exactly what makes it up... But with TES, we've got all kinds of seemingly conflicting information, from Sithis being the inevitable oblivion of all souls, to the Nightengales indicating that souls eventually fade away, to the Soul Cairn, to the Dreamsleave and its recycling, to Lysandus indicating that souls can relatively easily travel from Aetherius to Nirn...

There's a lot of unknowns, which ultimately makes any conclusion somewhat shaky.

Does everyone agree that it′s Jurgen′s soul that you′re absorbing at his tomb during the main questline?

ps-I′ve been trying to come up with a consistent story for a khajiit dragonborn and this is all very helpful, thank you. Even when there′s not much conclusion, that could easily be iimplemented into a in-universe story as incomplete/innacurate knowledge. It′s not every mage or shaman that has the entire fucntioning of the world figured out, so any deep misconception is forgivable. I just wanted to get the rough innacuracies about the possibility out of the way. thanks everyone

I don't think its ever been established that Jurgen was Dragonborn. He was a Tongue, absolutely, but i never got the indication he was Dragonborn.

Me neither, really. Apart from the fact that you absorb a dragon soul by activating his tomb after receving the blessing of the greybeards. That′s why I decided to ask here.