Non-physics interactive NPC bodies : IV

» Tue May 03, 2011 12:51 am

First, here's my load list:

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  Jog_X_Mod.esm02  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm  [Version 4.5bSI]03  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm  [Version 4.5bSI]04  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.73]05  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]06  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]07  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]08  Progress.esm  [Version 2.2]09  CM Partners.esm0A  DIM Elves Of Lineage II Retex.esm**  Cobl Races TNR.esp  [Version 1.53]**  Cobl Races TNR SI.esp  [Version 1.53]0B  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.3.4]0C  Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp0D  DLCShiveringIsles.esp0E  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.1]0F  SM Plugin Refurbish - SI.esp  [Version 1.05]10  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp11  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp12  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp13  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]14  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  LoadingScreens.esp++  _darker_nights.esp++  phinix-waterfix.esp++  Louder Nirnroot Sound.esp15  Distant Chapel Bells.esp++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.76]16  Portable Campsite.esp17  Tamriel VWD v0.5.esp18  Streamline 3.1.esp19  Enhanced Hotkeys.esp  [Version 2.1.1]1A  DLCHorseArmor.esp1B  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.6]1C  SM Plugin Refurbish - HorseArmor.esp  [Version 1.11]1D  DLCOrrery.esp1E  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]1F  SM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery.esp  [Version 1.11]20  DLCVileLair.esp21  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.6]++  SM Plugin Refurbish - VileLair.esp  [Version 1.21]22  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp23  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]24  SM Plugin Refurbish - MehrunesRazor.esp  [Version 1.11]25  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]++  MaleBodyReplacerV4.esp26  Elegant Vests.esp27  Gloves.esp28  KDDwemerSpectacles.esp29  kdThiefVest.esp2A  DLCThievesDen.esp2B  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.8]++  MMM_Runeskull_Rebalance_BETA2.esp  [Version Beta]2C  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.73]2D  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]2E  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp  [Version 1.09]2F  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]30  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]**  OMOBS.esp  [Version 1.0]**  OMOBS_SI.esp  [Version 1.0]31  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]32  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]++  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta2]33  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]34  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life No Gates.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_SaferRoads.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_LessRats.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_LessReaversInGates.esp  [Version 0.9.9]35  Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]36  Mart's Monster Mod - Zombies for Body Meshes.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]37  Mart's Monster Mod - Safer Quest Locations.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]38  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]39  Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]3A  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]3B  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]3C  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3f]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot G&GD.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]**  Fransfemale.esp**  LoadingScreens-OOO.esp3D  KDCircletsOOOOptimized - Loot Only.esp  [Version 1.2]++  MMM-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.73]**  EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer for OOO.esp**  EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer4MMM.esp3E  Gift of Kynareth.esp3F  hackdirtabyss.esp40  Jagnot- Imperial City Library V1.3.esp41  Kragenir's Death Quest.esp42  KDQ - Rural Line Additions.esp43  LostSwordOfTheAylied.esp44  LostSwordOfTheAylied - Claymore Add-On.esp45  LostSwordOfTheAylied - OBSE Add-On.esp46  The Ayleid Steps.esp  [Version 3.0]47  thievery.esp48  Tona's_ModsStore.esp49  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp4A  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]4B  SM Plugin Refurbish - Battlehorn.esp  [Version 1.2]4C  DLCFrostcrag.esp4D  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]4E  SM Plugin Refurbish - FrostCrag.esp  [Version 1.2]4F  Knights.esp50  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.1]**  EVE_KnightsoftheNine.esp++  SM Plugin Refurbish - Knights.esp  [Version 1.06]**  DLC_MOBS.esp51  The Lost Spires.esp52  Lost Paladins of the Divines.esp53  MannimarcoRevisited.esp54  MannimarcoRevisitedOOO.esp  [Version 0.1]55  Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]56  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp  [Version 3.0.0]57  Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 3.0.0]58  Bag of Holding.esp  [Version 1.5.0]59  EVE_ShiveringIslesEasterEggs.esp5A  Dungeon Actors Have Torches 1.6 DT.esp5B  Exterior Actors Have Torches 1.3 DT.esp5C  Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp  [Version 3.1.1]5D  Wrye Shivering.esp  [Version 08]5E  Quest Award Leveller.esp++  Quest Award Leveller - Battlehorn Castle.esp++  Quest Award Leveller - Vile Lair.esp++  Quest Award Leveller - Mehrunes Razor.esp++  Quest Award Leveller - Knights of the Nine.esp5F  SigilStoneSelector.esp60  Syc_AtHomeAlchemy.esp61  Lightweight Potions.esp  [Version 1.1]62  Panzer_Kleidung_03.esp63  nGCD.esp64  nGCD Oghma Infinium.esp65  ProgressGSD.esp  [Version 2.0]66  ProgressMBSP.esp  [Version 2.0]67  ProgressSBSP.esp  [Version 1.0]68  ProgressRBSP.esp  [Version 1.0]69  ProgressRacial.esp6A  ProgressArmorer.esp  [Version 1.0]6B  Legendary Abilities-Shield MOJ.esp  [Version 2.0]6C  Grandmaster of Alchemy.esp**  Dark Dungeons -  SI.esp  [Version 1.0]++  Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp  [Version 0.76]++  Item interchange - Placement for Frostcrag.esp  [Version 0.76]++  Item interchange - Option, Ingredients in Bulk.esp  [Version 0.76]6D  CM Partners.esp**  Hidden_Elves.esp  [Version 1.2]6E  Elves Of Lineage II.esp6F  DesuChan's Dolls.esp70  DesuChan's Kawa-Khajiits.esp71  CM Partners Friska.esp72  CM PARTNER KITTY SNOW.esp73  Kristen2CM.esp74  Terimer.esp75  DAMeridiaKatrina.esp76  MeganCM.esp++  EVE_KhajiitFix.esp++  EyelashesVannilaRaces.esp++  Better Looking Dark Elves.esp77  CM_Piper2.esp78  AdrianaCM6.esp79  AnnabelleCM.esp++  bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicEVStartspells.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicEVAddEnVar.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicShaderLifeDetect.esp  [Version 1.68]7A  AlbaCM.esp7B  Cobl Races.esp  [Version 1.52]++  Visually Enchanted Fire 3.esp++  Visually Enchanted Frost 2.esp++  Visually Enchanted Shock 1.esp7C  Better Looking Redguards.esp**  FCOM_Archery.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp  [Version 1.53]7D  Better Looking Wood Elves COBL.esp7E  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.7EV]7F  kuerteeDetectLifeEffectNightEyeShader.esp80  bgMagicLightningbolt.esp81  Visually Enchanted SoulTrap 1.esp82  Cobl Silent Equip Misc.esp  [Version 01]83  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

As the topic title says, test play reveals that suddenly dead NPCs are no longer physics-interactive. I can't push them around, flip them over, etc. Dead creatures behave normally. It's just an issue with NPCs.

Is this a known conflict bug with any of my mods, or does perhaps one of my new additions have an errant GMST in it that can cause this? I don't honestly know if there's a gmst that can actually turn off physics for a specific type of dead body. If so I'd greatly appreciate any information on what I'm looking for.

Worth noting is that since before I had this problem, the only thing I've added is CM Partners, ESM and ESP, v 2.0, and a handful of partner mods. These are mostly Urrl's and a few others, all in the same section of my load list toward the bottom. I noted that a couple of Urrl's companion mods do modify female body section GMSTs, I don't know what the reason is for this or if it's possibly the culprit. But the issue effects all dead NPCs, not just females. In fact, I just discovered it also effects humanoid creatures; the goblins and zombie in the starter dungeon is immovable once dead. So apparently anything with a human skeleton.

EDIT, update: correction, goblins can be moved. Zombies cannot along with any human body NPC.

» Tue May 03, 2011 6:40 am

Worth noting is that since before I had this problem, the only thing I've added is CM Partners, ESM and ESP, v 2.0, and a handful of partner mods. These are mostly Urrl's and a few others, all in the same section of my load list toward the bottom. I noted that a couple of Urrl's companion mods do modify female body section GMSTs, I don't know what the reason is for this or if it's possibly the culprit. But the issue effects all dead NPCs, not just females. In fact, I just discovered it also effects humanoid creatures; the goblins and zombie in the starter dungeon is immovable once dead. So apparently anything with a human skeleton.

EDIT, update: correction, goblins can be moved. Zombies cannot along with any human body NPC.

Try removing those added mods and see if that fixes the issue, esp. the "handful of partner mods".

Some notes on your load order, but nothing pertaining to this issue:

0C Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp - Skip. Only use if you notice it's necessary.

2F FCOM_WarCry.esp [Version 0.9.9MB3] - Update to 109.

39 Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp [Version 3.7b3p3] - Don't use with OOO/FCOM.

++ Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot G&GD.esp [Version 3.7b3p3] - So not this either.

** EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer for OOO.esp - Install resources for stock, OOO, MMM but only use EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer4FCOM.esp
** EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer4MMM.esp - As above.

» Tue May 03, 2011 1:46 am

Thanks Arkngt. I've been playing with trying to find the culprit for the problem in the files for the partner mods I recently installed... I don't want to drop them all because I know one of them is causing the problem somehow (though it may be a conflict with something else in my load order).

About MMM gems and gem dust - I thought that was fixed now? I thought I read somewhere that it was, and I know for a fact that BOSS used to give a warning about it and no longer does. I was using it because: A) I disable geomancy anyway, and everything I had previously read said it was okay to use as long as you do this, and B) I wanted to try MMM_Runeskull_Rebalance_BETA2.esp in my FCOM game. That file requires the Diverse Runeskulls Loot. But I think there's a non G&GD version I can dig out if it's necessary.

I didn't know there was a combined EVE4FCOM, I have the resources installed already, can you by chance point me to the ESP? What about the FransFemale.esp (which, although the naming is different, is also an EVE file)?

» Tue May 03, 2011 6:28 am

Thanks Arkngt. I've been playing with trying to find the culprit for the problem in the files for the partner mods I recently installed... I don't want to drop them all because I know one of them is causing the problem somehow (though it may be a conflict with something else in my load order).

Basically I think it comes down to you trouble shooting it by removing one of them at a time then and check if it fixes the issue. Or remove all of them and add one at a time and check. Or check the TES Nexus comments for them and see if someone else has reported the issue.

Thanks Arkngt. I've been playing with trying to find the culprit for the problem in the files for the partner mods I recently installed... I don't want to drop them all because I know one of them is causing the problem somehow (though it may be a conflict with something else in my load order).

About MMM gems and gem dust - I thought that was fixed now? I thought I read somewhere that it was, and I know for a fact that BOSS used to give a warning about it and no longer does. I was using it because: A) I disable geomancy anyway, and everything I had previously read said it was okay to use as long as you do this, and B) I wanted to try MMM_Runeskull_Rebalance_BETA2.esp in my FCOM game. That file requires the Diverse Runeskulls Loot. But I think there's a non G&GD version I can dig out if it's necessary.

I didn't know there was a combined EVE4FCOM, I have the resources installed already, can you by chance point me to the ESP? What about the FransFemale.esp (which, although the naming is different, is also an EVE file)?

Well, you shouldn't use Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp with OOO/FCOM regardless of what you've read. Check the MMM opening post if you'd like. It won't be magically fixed until the next MMM/OOO releases.

Check http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24078 for EVE HGEC files, including FCOM and Fran's - and, yes, you should use FransFemale.esp:

FCOM - Get's Complicated here..Since eve_fcom only includes the esp need,

First you must have vanilla/frans/OOO/MMM eve resources installed has well in order to get full effect. Armamentarium has well if you have that installed.

So Do not use eve_stockequipmentreplacer.esp, instead use eve_stockequipmenterplacer4fcom.esp , load after fcom.esp itself, along with fransfemale.esp, along with armentariumfemale.esp if using that has well. FCOM requires bash patched so check merge and graphics section and make sure these are checked off has needed. else contains all the changes need to make it compabitle with ooo/mmm.

» Mon May 02, 2011 11:25 pm

Hey, I've solved this problem and figured I would share, so those who see the thread will know the answer if it happens to them or comes up again.

I had recently decided to give nGCD/Progress another try, and was running nGCD without the "Immediate Character Generation" optional add-on. This causes you to begin the game with very low stats. Basically, my strength was too low to move full-sized human bodies. I didn't even realize that strength played a factor in being able to move havoc objects, but I experimented with this to be sure, outside of the sewers and beyond chargen areas, by playing with my strength values. Sure enough, too low and suddenly bodies are immovable. I didn't carry on the experiment far enough to get an exact number, but 35 allows human bodies to be moved, while 20 does not.

This led me to wonder, are there larger bodies that can be moved only by high strength characters? I only bother moving bodies when they're in the way of something, so as far as I recall I've never tried to move a minotaur, for instance.