I hope that you can have fistfights with people without guards immediatly trying to arrest/kill you. Woudn't it be great to beat somebodies tail when they say something smart? If you hit people with your fist they should either
Run Away (most women and some older men and peaceful men like priest or such)
Fight Back (most people, just using unarmed)
Try to kill you ( Some of the rougher people in the game would just get pissed off and immediatly pull out a sword)
Most people just watch a make comments about the fight (they should actually watch and seem excited not just ignore it) but guards would ttry to break up the fight and maybe charge a small fine or something. If you assault a guard you should be arrested though. Also if you start a fight with some people their friends might jump in and help if they start losing too badly. If you hit someone enough the will either give up, or try to kill you. If you or the NPC gets hit enough they should get knocked out and if you continue hitting them they could eventually die in which case it would be murder. You can of course yeild to stop most fights thought some will keep hitting you. This would be a great feature, espicially if drunks tried to start fights with you in bars and such. It would actually give you a reason to put points into unarmed. NPCs could occasionally get into random fights also. What does everyone think? :celebration:

That is a good idea to be honest. Even thou i would get into alot of fights with the Altmer. It would make it alot more realistic IMO

Nice idea if the new game engine allows for it

I don't have high hopes for it though

It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to implement, if it is please explain as i am sure you're more tech savy than i.

Great idea. I would also like the idea of occasionally being thrown to the ground and doing ground fighting for one's life - especially if one's vision on the monitor were from that perspective. Imagine walking around doing your thing and some crazy lunatic or creature attacks you and throws you off your feet or horse and you tumble and tumble and you hear all the snarls, feel the dripping saliva, the blood spurting, and the visceral feel of intense, hand to hand combat. When you finally regain your feet, you try desperately not to go down again, but are ready with sword/spell/bow.

I so agree.
A Skyrim tavern without a brawl, neh

Go elsewhere and sip your tea.

I'd love to see that but have a feeling that someone might yell 'Halt' if you started a fist fight.

Oh, I would also love to be able to intimidate npc's (vocally) to "back off", attack me, fear me ....

I always wanted non-lethal combat to be part of TES. Possibilities are endelss - bar brawls, muggings, another way of NPC "persuasion", bounty hunting with live delivery, kidnappings... Unfortunately, so far in TES "do what you want" resulted in having to play a serial killer. Here is to hoping that Skyrim will change it...

It would also make the people who roleplay as characters who do not kill very happy. I've never done it myself, because of the lack of non-lethal knockouts, but I like the idea of being TES version of the Doctor.

To be honest, I was kind of expecting this in Oblivion. I don't know how many others closely followed Oblivon's development on the TES official website, but the developers made up a scenario that could have been in Oblivion (this was probably back in 2004). More or less, the player would just be minding his/her own business walking through town, and then some random drunkard would be stumbling out of the nearest pub. Without any cause at all, the drunkard would begin to mock you, challenging him/her to a fist fight. It was these kind of details that Oblivion should have had (as it was mentioned by the developers) that would have made the game much more immersive in my opinion. I strongly advocate for a non-lethal combat system like this to be implemented. It's kind of like duels in the wild wild west. They happen, but law enforcement wouldn't necessarily arrest if they occurred.

THIS IS EXACTLY what happens in PIRANHA BYTE'S GOTHIC 1, GOTHIC 2 (best RPG ever, raqes Morrowind in the ass imo), GOTHIC 3 AND WORLD OF RISEN.

Best atmosphere ever... Very high quality, and the cities were so alive... ahh Check out the gothic series. and ace, we all know you took "your" idea from the gothic series.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_II check it out!

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yes, i agree a pretty nice idea.

Agreed. NPCs and the Player Character should be allowed to surrender, rather than fight to the death.

I like how PC to NPC combat was handled in Gothic 1. When you beat the crap (health) out of your opponent, they drop down unconscious. During this time, you can take their stuff. After 10 seconds or so, they'll get back to their feet, still with low health, and will be nonhostile (unless they really hate your guts and want to kill you). However, you, as the player, have the option to execute them when they are vulnerable. In Gothic 1, killing someone you picked a fight with (or who picked a fight with you) was frowned upon by other NPCs.

A problem with some of the TES games is that if you pick fights with NPCs, you'll end up depopulating the game due to the 'fight to the death' mentality.

A fun implication of non-lethal combat could be dueling to settle arguments, win bets, prove a point, etc.

Indeed. It would also allow to roleplay more if you can choose to kill or spare opponents. I liked what the Gothics did, but they didn't use the system enough, IMHO. And those problems with RAI in Oblivion that led to dumbing it down? Wouldn't exist if NPCs used non-lethal combat on each other by default.

I would also like to see this in the next Fallout

But......

:obliviongate: > :fallout:

Hmm... non-lethal attacks would be nice for stealthy characters too. Imagine, it's late at night and your thief character is rummaging through a jewelry box in some wealthy estate when hear the owner waking up in the next room. Leaving the jewelry box teetering on the dresser you quickly and quietly move to the corner of the room closest to the door leading to the hallway the owner of the house is now tip-toeing down. The own takes a cautious step through the doorway, using his candle to pan the room for the intruder. He sees nothing and turns back to hallway just as your scroll of invisibility wears off. "Whew, that was close" you mutter under your breath when, all of a sudden, crash! The jewelry box lay on the floor and you hear the owner drop his candle and a shiiink as he pulls out his dagger. The owner runs into the room shouting "I know you're in here, show yourself thief!" You tell yourself "must be quick, can't kill him, that's not my style" as you swoop behind him with a thwap, thwap, thwap and thud as the man falls unconscious before he even hits the ground. You run and grab the contents of the jewelry box and rush to exit through the window you entered.

That's why I would like non lethal combat.

You can't in Skyrim without having a barfight, soooo either I kill all of the guards in the general area before I start it or we use your idea. I'd like the latter.

Good thread, we need brawls and KOs, I mean Nord taverns? Come on, the two go hand in hand

It's a very good idea. Don't see why every fist fight has to be lethal. The thing is, I think it would be difficult to implant when it should be lethal and not lethal.

Not impossible, though. One angle might be if there's "mutual aggression" involved. If both individuals want to fight, presumably neither are going to call for help from a guard, which would help keep bar fights and such from being immediately broken up. It might even stop them from approaching if they're in view, since they simply don't care that a couple idiots are in a fight. You could also have aggression levels, for how "into it" the NPC is. Faction strife might increase aggression, and being drunk would probably also increase it. Maybe so and so doesn't like altmer, and when they see one that sends their aggression level high enough to start a fight. If their aggression is below a certain point, they fight with non-lethal intent by default. If a target loses consciousness or surrenders, it would lower their aggression and they stop. That way you could have a couple drunks in a bar, one starts getting angry, his taunts raise the aggression of the target NPC, they fight, one goes down, the other resumes their normal activity of drinking. If the score is high enough they start to have murder on their mind, and pull out a weapon if they've got one, or don't stop at knocking the other person out. Guards would obviously step in here, as well as "high grade" fights in the street, but small fights in town or bigger ones out of sight (i.e. in a tavern) are ignored. Without the mutual aspect, you couldn't just walk up to a stranger and punch them and get away with it, as they'd call the guard for assault. You could goad them into it and not be immediately arrested, sort of like Morrowind, but you still couldn't take it too far and use it as a source of free murder like you could in Morrowind.

Just a thought on it, anyway.

I was thinking about something like this too, like women and other people that Run Away would go alert the guards.

I think you may be able to implement in in Oblivion, just gotta figure out how the initial attack shouldn't send the guards running, but the rest is just purely AI

This seems totally plausible, it wouldnt be too hard to impliment and it would add alot to the game, but for some reason I doubt it will be added, probably because it would turn hand to hand into a non lethal skill.

I began a mod in oblivion so that fist fights can't kill and guards will arrest you when the fight is over....to see this in Skyrim would be awesome.

I can't believe no one mentioned Red Dead Redemption. They let you get in fist fights with with pretty much anyone in town. You could get some amazing fights going on in that game. Just piss a few dudes off, climb a tall building, and then fist fight on top of it. When people went unconscious they would rag doll and fall off buildings and the like. Easily one of the most fun things to do in that game. It's more fun to go 3 rounds with some random dude than kill half a dozen guards.