Have you read/http://playtesting.net/?cat=3 Death by Cliché?

I like it <_<

But we never had any world wars when all humans had as weapons were sticks and stones.

I think the joke is that after WW3 there would be nothing left but sticks and stones.

True, but I still like the meaning of it.

I don't think people understand what's at stake here. IF North Korea doesn't respond to S.Korea's retaliatory artillery strikes they will have lost all of it's political gains it has made over the years.

What we know:

1. N.Korea has nukes
2. Seoul is within distance of N.Korean batteries


And as far china goes i don't think many people know this but Chinese military officials have been advocating involvement in a large scale conflict. The Government likely wants no part but the Chinese military will force their governments' hand, in which case there will be some problems, but this has been a long time coming, and i rather get this over with.

How so?

I can imagine reasons why war may be in China's interest at this point, I'm just wondering what's been said/leaked to suggest this?

China has been doing the same [censored] that N.Korea has and it has been pushing the buttons of Japan, look at the Chinese navy buildup. While the buildup of the Chinese navy has been impressive the growth of the Chinese military is mind boggling. Most of this has been in response to the US selling arms to Taiwan, but there is a extreme element within the Chinese military.

It is always difficult to know whether the jingoistic comments that do emerge from the PLA at times over Taiwan or NK or Japanese Islands can be taken as real sentiment, playing patriotism for home consumption or just establishing an extreme position so the real outcome will seem reasonable and measured. Remember the Chinese government mustn't openly scold Pyongyang too much as that may provoke more retaliation. All about face, losing it and keeping it.

In the last korean war, china lost about a million men. I doubt they will make the same mistake again. Especially with the economical fallout that will cripple them if they do declare war on NATO. China is defiantly not the bad guy now.

It wont be good if this war happens and china takes the side of North Koera.....it'll cripple alot of australian mining exports.

I think this will all escalate into....nothing.

@mrcrazy-monkey
Nukes = Ineffective????
I'd have to think any nuke would be somewhat effective... even if its just radioactive material strapped with explosives it would be a "Dirty Bomb" capable of extreme harm

off topic: @solid_moose, love the Avatar bro, Frances is a masterpiece, although I prefer Deloused myself, everything by them is inexplicably amazing

You do not understand that China is becoming a superpower trough economic means, rather then militarily.

Although China might destroy North Korea if they start being too much of a torn in their side, or take back Taiwan if they start shouting that they are independent, they dont want to do so, since it might hurt the incredible hold they have on the world economy. The very last thing thy want is war, since it'd really hurt their rising economy. They'd have little to gain and so much to lose. This, couple with the nuclear menace, means I do not see them voluntarily going to war anytime soon.

Their leaders will never let the military do anything so self destructive.

Solution: China conquers North Korea. They won't, but it would solve their problems, and i don't see USA or their allies throwing a too big fit over it. Well, Japan and Taiwan would be intimitated, which would raise tensions in the region.

...I guess i was just promoted to an internet armchair general :lmao:

my thoughts exactly. they may stand alone, but that makes them dangerous.

Not aiding N.Korea would be a political defeat for the Chinese military and any actions against Taiwan would result in the undoing of china, it wouldnt take long to rally the world against them. This is one of those great situations of damned if you do damned if you don't, if things escalate.

The methodology and the equipement we use to fight wars has changed, but the human inclination to fight has not.

I agree, or at least hope so.

I rather picture it like this:
Countries on the playground

South Korea is climbing on the monkeybars, and North Korea, China's little brother is digging in the dirt watching SK.
NK throws sand at South Korea.
South Korea, the US's cousin, spits on North Korea's head, and calls North Korea a [censored]head.
China and the US are on the swing sets, setting up a nintendo game swap.
The EU has brought a metal detector to school and is looking for lost lunch money in the dirt.
No one wants to play with Iran and Venezuala because they are lacking in people skills. So they are off by themselves throwing frisbees and mocking everyone else.
China and the US stop swinging and look at each other. NK and SK are now tussling in the dirt.
The teacher (UN) comes over and puts North Korea on the bench the rest of teh recess for bullying, and South Korea has to write "I will not vulgar language while on the playground." China and the US continue to do business.
South Korea vows revenge. North Korea beings to plot, and the next day, stockpiles a small arsenal of acorns.

IIRC, last time NK acted up didn't they walk away with a lot of foreign aid as a "buy off" to behave better?

I sure hope nothing bad goes wrong in the long wrong and NK's nukes aren't effective I hope.
But Mamagato dang I like how well that was just pure genius how you described countries as if they were in a playground. I wish I was that creative.

i've always thought of countries as people in a bar myself.

Unlikely that they would support North Korea at this point

As I've said before China is in the middle of a economic and industrial boom (think industrial revolution). Besides extremism the US really isn't that much better and you have to ask yourself http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/10/20/whos_the_rogue_superpower?

At this point if China were to go to war with the countries that they are selling steel to and those countries embargoed China's steel (a very likely first move) then China's economy would begin to crumble.



http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/11/19/guest_blog_is_rebalancing_possible

And, you know, people will die. I guess that's just not important these days.

I think now, that the chances of full-scale war are quite unlikely. The initial hysteria (and rightly so, it was undoubtedly one of the most serious, and potentially disastrous incidents regarding foreign relations in the countries, since the Korean War) has subsided somewhat, and I believe that neither sides would be foolish enough to engage each other in the current situation. Also the speculation of this escalting into World War Three is absolutely ridiculous and barely even deserves mentioning.

However, I certainly do not rule out war in the future. I think this will escalate eventually, but not as soon as most predict. I dare say more as I cannot divulge in politics.