We are going to need the ability to jump to get out of all the geometry we'll get stuck in.

If fish can jump out of the water, I'm sure we can too - like in the previous BGS games

What's wrong with Witcher 2? (aside from a few unnecessary changes from Witcher 1)
Its a great game. :tops:

I'm pretty sure that player will be able to jump. Why would they remove that feature form and 1st person game? An open-world game? I mean, anyonwe should be able to just jump on a rock or over a little short fence.

Ba-pun-tsssshh!

Yeah duno that they thinking W2 is a Grate game, in the terms of story, and replay value. Compareble with games like ME, ME2, DA, DA2, NWN, and other good RPGs for the Pc in the last 10 years.

TES game is another kind of game, where you RP by interacting with this big sand box, where the story is some what week. but the freadon is excelent.

Still We will be able to jump,

An (un)interesting subject I see brought up a lot in various RPG's. "Jumping". It's usually one of the easiest ways to tell a moron from a thinking entity in terms of complaints. When "Jumping" is brought up as a main concern, you likely have an idiot, and they should be ignored for your own sanity.


There's really only one reason for Jumping to be included in any game, and that's as a necessity of navigation. Very obvious in games like The Elder Scrolls, where the world design is open, and even being hand crafted (Morrowind/Skyrim only) you can't account for every situation, and jumping allows players to correct a lot of issues that might arise, such as getting stuck behind small borders. But on other games, like Mass Effect 1-2, The Witcher, and many others, Jumping doesn't add anything except an unnecessary liability to level design. The Notion that "Jumping" has to be included in every RPG lately, comes from the plague known as World of Warcraft, setting a standard even for games not related to it.

A good example of when Jumping works and doesn't comes from The Elder Scrolls games themselves. In Morrowind, it was easily a design necessity, being able to dislodge yourself and even going so far as the world design. Vvardenfell had a distinctly unique "Vertical" aspect that you didn't see in Oblivion. But, in Oblivion, the world had no real reason to include Jumping. It was a mindless distraction and in practice, it was nothing more than an extra keystroke to get from one place to another, I can't even recall a situation where I had to use the Jump ability do dislodge myself.

No it wasn't. It added depth and gameplay variety in OB. Not to mention SI was basically made for the acrobatic.

I heard a long time ago that you can jump, but like Fallout, you cant jump higher because there is no acrobats. If you couldnt jump at all it would be impossible to play, and it would be ridiculous because in Morro and OB you can do it!

Why the would you think we wouldn't be able to jump? This is primarily a first peron RPG. Not being able to jump would be pretty crazy. :/

First of all, we're not talking about Shivering Isles. As far as I'm concerned, SI is as different as Fallout 3.

Secondly, and more to the point, it didn't add depth, and it didn't add meaningful gameplay variety. Your definitions of these are totally misconstrued off your ability to "Fake" Game mechanics. While I can't argue against having "Acrobatics" for roleplaying reasons, the world of Cyrodiil was not designed to take proper advantage of it. Hell, Fallout 3 and New Vegas, despite not having an "Acrobatic" skill, take better advantage of the environment for such a game style.

No, again, it added depth and gameplay options. Nothing 'fake' about those. SI is a expansion, not "as different as Fallout3".

Perhaps you'd be willing to share some examples? Because right now, you're just posting opinions with no evidence, which is an automatic failure in an argument. Unlike myself, in which I've explained the trademark "Vertical" design of Vvardenfell's world and dungeons. As oppose to the Flatlands we see in Oblivion.

Fallout 3 runs on the same engine. There's strikingly little difference between the two. Setting and Character progression aside.

So you cant think of anything to do with the ability to jump high and I have to give examples? Why? Why do I always have to give examples for people that cant think on their own. Do you people even play TES games? I have to do it with spell creation and now the ability to jump. Fine, I will.

The ability to straight jump over an enemy, the ability to jump from roof top to roof top for a quick escape, jumping onto something high to pelt your enemy from afar, the ability to dodge and flip, the ability to traverse water without swimming, or using magic...I could keep going.

Fallout 3 is not ES. OB and SI are ES. A full game and an expansion cut from the same cloth.

The game isn't 'designed to take advantage of' npcs who don't give quests or sell things, the non skill lore books don't affect the game at all, should they be removed?
And there were parts of dungeons in OB you had to jump across, and the odd chest you couldn't reach otherwise.

I want to do stuff like this to get around/over obstacles in Skyrim. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8YjJNKbt9o

"Jump on the rooftops for a Quick Escape" out of an area that has only two exits? You lose that one. It didn't add anything but meaningless fluff. Had the Cities been "Open" that would have held ground.

Ability to Dodge and Flip is useless, since "Backpedaling" is infinitely more effective. Again, you're just using your imagination, to fill in the blanks, which is fine and dandy (I do it all the time) but looking at it from Design perspective, it's useless. So, you're going to have to do a little better.

High-ground sniping ambush I may have to concede, but at the same time, that just highlights how the world wasn't designed properly, since even a small gap in altitude results in the AI's pathfinding completely sh*tting itself.

The Ability To Traverse the Water without Swimming. Again, this is kind of meaningless. Useless fluff that doesn't add anything but an imaginative wall between yourself and another class. And like I said, that's fine, but it still doesn't show a world built with even the acknowledgement of acrobat as a gameplay type.




Gamebryo and it's modular middleware is bolt the original cloth was cut from. We could continue this, or we could agree that it's an impasse, because I will never look at SI in the same light as Oblivion. They're fundamentally different, in that SI is Hand-crafted, and Oblivion is Daggerfall-vomit Procedural.

Oh dear.

LOL, like always, your proven wrong then try to refute me with fallacies. I gave you examples that you apparently couldn't think of and you still want to argue. If you dont want to jump, then dont jump. But some people do like to get everything out of their TES. You just want to get rid of variety, depth and gameplay mechanics because you personally dont like somthing. dont like it, dont use it. But its no reason to dumb down the series. Just because you personally think somethings more practical doesnt mean thats who are build is. Your basically just admitting to playing ES games like linear action games.

If Skyrim doesn't have jumping, it must instead have the most mind-numbingly complex, bug-prone and yet ubiquitous height-detecting character movement game mechanic ever dreamed.

My bet's on the jumping.

Ah, I see. Because your examples failed to provide compelling evidence, you automatically assume I want everything removed from the game except guns and dragons. Totally missing my point that some games (IE: The Witcher 2) just don't benefit from a Jump feature, and that The Elder Scrolls games are games that typically do. Missing my point that we should make every gameplay variety a meaningful endeavor, instead of a useless distraction. I think you need to let go of this childish animosity, and actually re-read everything to gain proper context. And if I intercommunicated my intent, I'm sorry.

My examples gave plenty of compelling evidence. You just apparently cant understand that, or that everybody doesnt make the same build as you. You basically just want to remove somthing because you personally didnt use it. the only thing that would need to be "fixed" about it is better AI when you take the high ground. other than that I refuted your original claim that jumping was pointless in OB.

why would some people tell you NOT to play THE WITCHER 2?!? that game's [censored] AWESOME!
true that game has no jumping but has certain parts where you can climb/vault/etc so it's not necessary (in witcher 2)
the elder scrolls series i don't think can FUNCTION w/o jumping. it's been in morrowind and oblivion (maybe even previous ones, i never played em so idk) so i'm quite POSITIVE there'll be jumping!

The_Ugly_Guy:
I agree that in games like The Witcher 2 and Mass Effect, jumping wouldn't be very useful as it is designed. (Other than looking cool, which, by the way, is a major factor in games - after all, we are playing for fun, and being cool is fun^^)

But I disagree with you that jumping is useless in Oblivion.

You say that jumping from roof to roof is useless because there are only 2 exits... Well, there might just be two exits, but there are many ways to reach those exits! And there are also villages where jumping on the roof is viable.

Ability to dodge and flip isn't useless. Even though "backpedaling" is more effective, doesn't mean it's more fun to do so. And again, we play (singleplayer) games for fun, not for being most effective in combat against an AI character.

Being able to traverse water without swimming could save your life. Think of a situation where you have extremely low HP, and the only way to get to safety is across a lake. But there are Slaughterfish in the lake, that would kill you on one hit. So what do you do? You jump across!


Could people stop thinking about what is most effective and useful in a singleplayer game, and rather think about something that matters in the game, to have fun?!

You say your evidence was compelling, yet it failed to compel me to believe that jumping was meaningful in Oblivion. You don't see the inherent flaw in your logic there? Again, I just don't think you understand the context in which I'm addressing the jumping issue.

Also, all these assumptions are quite rude. I've never been pro-removal, and I've used many different builds for many different characters through Oblivion and Morrowind. I'm just not particularly fond of "Novelty" for it's own sake. I think it's a waste of (Always limited) resources. If the do something, make it meaningful, this concept is at the heart of everything I've said.



I think Jumping like a bunny in full plate-armor looks stupid and childish. So two conflicting opinions form an impasse, and thus, a nonvalid argument.


Oblivion's city Design wasn't exactly Assassin's Creed Level. Honestly, if you start from the Ground floor, there's no actual reason to take time to jump to the rooftops to escape, you're better off just bolting to the nearest gate. The Debate isn't could you, it's whether or not it served any purpose, and having sunk so much time into Oblivion, I never found myself needing or wanting to utilize the acrobatic feature in the game.




To be fair, I'm just talking about Jumping here. Acrobatics(Dodge) and Jumping are not necessarily tied to one another. I still think it was pointless, but if the heart of the argument is world-design, there's really nothing, in terms of that, that would improve acrobatic evasion.