You're wrong, there.

If you think this game is too easy, then you're wasting your energy by arguing about the power of what appears to be half the skills in the game. You should be petitioning Bethesda to implement higher difficulty settings and new, more challenging content.

Also, if this game is easy, then so is every other game in the series; a point that you seem to acknowledge. What were you expecting?

Sadly you do not. All blacksmith npcs sell iron ore/ingots and leather/strips. That is all that is required to level smithing. You don't ever have to wield a pickaxe.

Do what I did... Level up smithing and not take any perks.

Seriously, if you wanna' play the game from an RP perspective you have to set goals. My main, is a former Blacksmith turned adventurer, so I levelled blacksmith, took two perks (Steel Smithing and Arcane Blacksmith) so I can craft and improve my favourite type of armour (Steel) and any enchanted weapons I find on my adventures, I can improve and add to the price when I sell.

Adventuring levels up your required combat skills, so do a lot of it. Raid a dungeon, get plenty of loot (collect as much weapons and armour as you can carry), hit a few mines and get some ore, head back to Whiterun (the forge at Whiterun has everything you need to craft and improve armour and weapons, Smelter, Tanning rack, Forge, Weapons grindstone and Armour table, it's also got the cheapest house with a safe storage chest, buy it and use it as a storage and sleeping base. You've also got two weapons and armour merchants to sell to, which makes profiteering much easier). So adventure, mine, smith, improve, sell, you'll make a fair bit of gold, level up your chosen combat skills and smithing skills (powerlevel smithing up to your chosen armour set and then stop putting perks in, save them for your combat skills)

And remember, this isn't an MMO, you can use and abuse and exploit all you want

I'm too lazy to go back and quote everyone that said something to this effect, but iirc there was a lot of "if you don't want to be powerful don't be powerful".

I have no problem with being powerful. Really, it was my character's goal to become powerful. My problem is with how apparently easily and quickly it can occur, and more importantly, how it reduces the incentive to go explore and quest.

Being powerful or weak in Skyrim is immaterial b/c whether you dispatch mobs quickly or in a more protracted manner, neither requires abundant skill by the player (on any difficulty). Tactics are extremely elementary and if winning a war of attrition against an unchallenging AI is the thing that keeps you engaged over countless hours--that's fine. Personally, I find both the protracted battles and the quick dispatches underwhelming.

Loot is a collateral motivation in Skyrim b/c the combat is unfulfilling under any scenario. This isn't unique to TES but many non-turn based RPG's suffer from the same dilemma--how in light of limited enemy AI and player move-set do you sustain fresh and challenging combat. Off hand, I can't think of any that have truly succeeded besides Demon/Dark Souls and that's a hybrid. Even the shooter aspects of ME/ME2 aren't up to the standards of the best FPS-- still somewhat better combat than here. Overall, I think a lot of the repetitive feel is b/c players have killed a zillion mobs in numerous RPG's w/ dumb AI using a limited move-set, and that gets old regardless of whether you have the best gear at level 1 or the worst gear at level 50.

Yes it is. (and yes I read the OP)

They literally had a gun to my head. I was so nervous I accidently took a perk in lockpicking and the guy shot me in the knee. WITH AN ARROW.

I am now a guard and I suspect Bethesda has secretly hacked my game to min/max my character. Damn you Bethesda, damn you!

Oh, of course! I get it now, thanks for explaining.

Yes I am going to make a character that wears leather and fur. It's about choice not having the best gear unless it suits your characters taste.

I think all of this could have been solved or resolved by role-playing.

If you establish a character and let that dictate your actions these things won't happen to you.

Think of role-playing like...a movie. If you were directing a Superman movie and your starring actor was asking if he could use a gun, what would you say?

You should say, 'Superman DOES NOT use guns.'

It's the same for your PC. There may be self imposed limitations, or not, it all depends on the character. I think you should ask yourself why you wanted daedric armor so fast in the first place. It's not like you couldn't beat anything wearing iron or steel.

I raised my smithing to 100 also but I only use Elven weapons and wear iron armor w/scaled bracer & boots. I never picked the perks to make daedric or dragon armor because my character would NEVER wear them.

Since I'm RP'ing and my PC isn't trying to be a blacksmith forever...

-the way I RP is that I decide what 'profession' my PC will have and try to only make gold doing that. If I was a blacksmith I'd only make/sell/loot weapons and armor for gold the same for being an alchemist or dealer in magical tomes, scrolls, etc.

...I only raised my skill in order to improve my personal gear. The guy in Riverwood is looking for 'help around his forge' so I just kept going back and making/selling daggers to him. RP'ing like I'm a blacksmith's assistant.

Having served as a blacksmith's assistant I'm now going to start doing what I (my PC) always wanted which is to be an alchemist. I'll no longer deal in any weapons or armor and will now concentrate on ingredients and potions.

Eventhough my other skills (weapons/armor/archery) aren't where they need to be, or where I'd like them, I know my gear is the best, for its' type, and my skills can catch up.

As the Thane of Whiterun, I won't become the Thane of any other hold, it's my duty to hunt bandits in the hold. I use that as a cover/reason for exploring instead of just roaming around and clearing places.

I'm eventually going to join the Legion and then go around to the Imperial friendly holds and hunt their bandits. Basically another cover/reason to explore. That's when I'll take on other side quests RP'ing as an Imperial officer bringing order to the territory. If I expand my duties and RP as an Imperial Special Agent assigned to Skyrim I could use that as the cover/reason for joining the other factions, in order to discover whether they pose a threat to the Empire or not...the real reason is because I have to be a member of certain guilds to complete some quests (I want these items out of my inventory...lol).

The whole time collecting potions/ingredients to sell to the alchemists of Skyrim.

I think the experience is diminished when you play the game with no...direction? If you're just on a mission to get the best of something once you get it then what?

Create a character/story/role that always has a reason to interact with the game and, IMO, you'll have a better experience.

Why not just smith things as you need them and not spam level smithing? That is what I do, and everything works out just fine.

The point is:

You don't get the best armor in the game in Diablo II.

With hours of trading and questing, you MAY get something good.

In Skyrim, the best weapons and armor are available for you in the starting village.
THE STARTING VILLAGE!!!!

In a game that is partially driven with exploration, mainly for better gear, that is literally game-breaking.

It's like a game with an "I win" button.
You can press it at any time during the game, and win the game.
It's always there.
You see it in every village you visit.
"Press me to win the game".

You can hear it:
"Clank, Clank, Clank... Fwwoooooosh" -- "Here, you can win the game!"

Why is it there, shining straight in our faces at all times in the skill-trees?
"Invest perks here to break the game: Make 10 times as powerful equipment as anything you've found so far and improve them twice as much, and PLEASE remember to invest in enchantment, too -- because nothing you find will have the right enchantment on the right item for your need".

Why is gear you can make 120 minutes into the game better than what gods and immortals and legendary smiths have managed to create with their nearly infinite resources compared to the lone adventurer who just 2 days ago barely escaped a dragon attack, who's now the God of Blacksmithing?

==============================

75% into the game, doing sidequests first, my bow skill is nearing 95%. Light armor is 40-ish.
Sneak is 50-ish.

WHERE do I invest perks when I don't play a thief, and won't use blades?
My bow is nearly maxed out, so the LOGICAL choice is to increase... ... ... ... whatever can improve my bow skills and/or armor.

Alchemy does not improve my bow.

It is about time anyway, because no single bow in the game have been better than the conjured bow, and I never intended to only use the conjured bow -- but summon a creature and use an ingame bow.

But how do I level up smithing and enchanting?

Seriously -- it'd be better if there was one massive quest based on your level that increased your gamebreaking-skills, so that you had to be level 40 to make gear that one-shots gods.

...

But why?

Seriously -- WHY?

Why don't you even have to leave the first town you visit after the dragon attack to craft gear that one-shots gods?

...
MORE IMPORTANTLY: WHY can you effortlessly create gear that one-shots gods without ever going out on a quest to discover the tome of god-killing gear, that you loot from the corpse of the God of Preventing People From Getting Their Hands on Godkilling Weapons?

WHY?!?!?!

It's like if the Master Sword lays on the ground in a Zelda-game, 5 minutes into the game.
People go "you don't have to pick it up".

I don't roleplay idiots.
I roleplay characters of average or above average intelligence.

I guess I have to roleplay a forsworn priest to avoid breaking the game.

...

I'm on this tirade right now because I just broke my THIRD character right now.
Roleplaying him won't work: He is a a high health and low magicka and stamina character.
From D&D and Dragon-Age, as well as Morrowind, and oblivion, he is a ranger/archer that does not use spells, but summons, with a heavy focus on archer skills and a bit of stealth.

He will not go alchemy, lockpicking, heavy armor, illusion, restoration, speech... they're not even NEAR the character, that has worked in every RPG till this date.

I've given up on him once before:
The first time I started with enchanting and smithing, because they could be finished straight off the bat, and I like doing the grinding before starting with the real game.
I realized that was incredibly stupid when I didn't feel the slightes need to look what was inside the next cave.

Now the same thing happened again:
I have a glass bow that i use over the conjured bow, despite the lower damage. That is an insult to the character's intelligence, but I'm willing to let that one slip.
...
I will end up forging a daedric bow, simply because it's in the obvious future.
The alternative is to stop leveling alltogether, not progressing my character the slightest -- his combat abilities will be set for the rest of the game, damage locked in place, while health and armor increases and perks are unspent because there's nowhere to place them where they make sense.

The problem is, it's not in the future.
It's now,

The second I decide to make a daedric bow, I can make it -- it just takes one to two hours.

...

So do I stop leveling my character, or do I spend two hours becoming a god?

I can roleplay a loon that somehow ignores the available resources and goes into the wild and gathers the gear needed to create godly gear.
But why would any sane character do that?

I have a wife and two kids, and my time is sparse.
The "I win" button is so tempting.
The master sword is there, I just have to pick it up...
If I don't pick it up, the game will grow stale and boring.
If I pick it up, the game will grow stale and boring.

...

So the only thing left is to reroll a new character, with so many primary skills that I never have to touch enchanting and smithing to progress.

Sword.
Board.
Heavy armor.

What else can I use to fill out the logical gaps in a non-mage non-sneak character's pure melee tank arsenal?
... ... ... Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh..!

Smithing works fine.

Well, this isn't WoW, best gear does not equal Humongous advantage.

So yeah, it was your own fault gimping your character.

From my perspective:
Going all non-combat perks is mostly for people who wants to roleplay a kinda average joe who'd die faster than you can say "aaaauhgblargh" against a dragon and who would rather just run his business all day long.

Joke thread, OP?

Nope!

Have you read all of the thread? (or more specifically my responses?) If you have please be more specific about what made you think it was a joke thread, I'd be happy to clarify.

If not, please go do that. I'm tired and I don't feel like reiterating stuff I've already said.

It's entirely your fault for exploiting the easily abused skill.

The stats of Dadric equipment (top of the pile) is only about 15% better than the stats of steel equipment (bottom of the pile). Really you can be an unkillable tank that one-shots everything in the game (master setting) with just two perks used in the smithing tree.

Hm, perhaps another way of explaining my problem:

What if Beth had put a single cave somewhere around where the player starts (or that a player is led near by an early quest in the game, something like that), and in this single cave is all of the best loot in the game. But the cave isn't called "ALL THE BEST LOOT Cave" or anything, it's just a cave. So you go in the cave and you stumble upon a sword laying around. You look at it and go "woah, this sword is way better than mine" So you take the sword. It's ridiculous imo at this point for the character to say to themselves "well, I don't know... this sword looks a bit too powerful if you ask me, maybe I should wait until I pick it up". It feels completely natural to pick up the sword. You go deeper into the cave and this repeats. You find armor a lot better than yours, and then a helm, etc, etc. You go through the cave and grab the stuff that's an improvement. The enemies in the cave weren't particularly tough or anything like that, standard stuff you'd expect to find in a cave at this point. Then you leave, and you think to yourself, "well that was a nice cave, I got a ton of nice loot." Then you go on with the game and you realize that all the loot everywhere else you go svcks. You have no incentive to really go in caves anymore because they don't offer much. In hindsight you realize that going into that cave was a bad idea. On your next character, when you come across the cave, you're probably not going to go inside, because you saw how it made the rest of the game not as fun. It doesn't change the fact that putting the cave there was a bad idea in the first place.

Umm no, my Skyrim power leveled character at Master is a hell of a lot easier than my max difficulty Morrowind power-leveled character.

Either way, by exploiting a certain skill our/your characters always end up OverPowerful.

If you could resist the urge to not do it on Morrowind and Oblivion, you can in Skyrim.
Also, from a PC player perspective, that can simple type "kill" in the console to kill anything, resisting the urge to be OverPoweful is easy.

Okay, now I see where you're coming from.

If you stumble upon this amazing power early on, whether we're talking about your cave of wonders or the smithing/enchanting skill, you have a choice whether or not to use it once you've realized it's overpowered. I agree - smithing can be abused, as can alchemy and enchanting. Some choose to use it, some do not. If you don't like the power that being proficient in these schools provides, simply opt out and use whatever armor/weapons you want. That's what I do. A traditional Nord warrior would look silly running around in glass armor, after all. So stick with leather or hide. Just do what feels right. Think of abusing crafting like you think of fast travel: it's there if you need it. If you don't, just do things your own way and have fun.

So, to answer your question. Is it your fault that you became inordinately powerful by using crafting, when you didn't expect it to happen? No. If you continue to use it (or abuse it), despite your misgivings? Yes, it is your fault. Skyrim is modeled around the concept of freedom. Just do what you like.

The difference is how is one to know where to draw the line? Opening the console is clearly "cheating" and I'm obviously not going to complain that things are too easy if I tgm.

What if the first shout you were given one-shot everything? No reason to complain there either, right? Just don't use that shout if you want to have any fun. All of the shouts one shot everything? Just don't use any of the shouts then, silly. Is Bethesda making you use the shouts?

You can use smithing without abusing it. craft your favorite set of armor, even if it's iron, improve it at the work table, and run with it. No one's saying you have to run around decked out in the best equipment.

I found what worked well for me (level 60 with 96 smithing now) is to follow a few rules:

1) Never buy any crafting materials, period. Find them or you don't have them, this includes ore/ingots, leather, alchemy ingredients, and soul gems (empty or full).

2) Smithing must be leveled by making the BEST stuff you can make and you must perk for it. In other words you can only go from 80 to 100 with either Ebony or Glass stuff (Daedric is an exception). Upgrading items is always allowed, just don't go upgrading the gear of every bandit you find or something. The point is to get better at smithing by doing something that would actually be challenging to your character. (I use a similar rule about enchanting).

3) Do not make your own Fortify Smithing gear or potions. If you find it or buy it that's fine, just don't make it yourself. It's actually pretty hard to find Fortify Smithing gear and it's usually around +15% when you do but can go as high as +22% at least. Potions cap at +50% for found/bought ones instead of the +130% you can make. This just keeps upgrading down a bit.


Using those rules has really kept my smithing in check but also kept it useful. I still have lots of reasons to go dungeon crawling at level 60 because my enchanting is only 73 because I just don't find that many full soul gems and not many creatures can be soul trapped for greater/grand souls so I can level it up (only just started mage quests). It just "feels right" to me this way and I don't have to "not use it because it's OP. Yeah I'm going to be OP as heck eventually but I'm already level 60 and got there slowly without power-leveling any skills so I don't really mind so much.