Smithing Iron Daggers is as obvious-cheating as opening the console.

You can use Smithing normally without meta-gaming it.

3 / 10

All of you super-elitist roleplaying nerds need to stop spouting the same argument and accusing critics of the crafting system of doing the same.

As they say in Russia:

"А у вас негров линчуют"

On topic, the complaint isn't the fact that you can access high level gear, it's that it is so easy to do so. This is a game. I shouldn't have to exercise self restraint just because the developer overlooked probably the most obvious exploit I've ever seen in a big name title. I don't want to have to make the challenge for myself, i want the game to challenge me.

The mantra of the roleplaying elite has been repeated aas naseum on these forums:

"Stop being such a casual gamer and learn to roleplay"

I shouldn't be forced to roleplay to enjoy the game.

I know what taking the time to level up my smithing/enchanting etc. will do to my weapons and armor. I don't have to do these things, but I will anyway. Then, I'll complain about what I did. My lack of self-control is your fault.

Sums it up?

Yes, yes it is.

Ayup.

It is your fault because you choose to do it. If you RPed smithing realistically then you wouldn't abuse it.

Maxing them is not abusing them at all. If you play normally like you did you shouldnt be able to break your game. Also crafted items should not be superior to items found in dungeons. Also crafting materials, rare ones, shouldn not be sold by vendors. The ingrediants for high level armor and weapons should ONLY drop from high level mobs

:D

Skyrim is for the roleplaying elite. Adapt.

Im maxing it on my main, but I also rely on "the best defense is a good offense" and I mostly only wear light fur armor.

He's a sniper and a bad ass with a sword, but he's not a tank (no block at all) and his bread and butter is dealing damage before he takes it.

I have to be smart and get them first, thats MY balance.

Well the good thing is you got your smithing to 100. Now you don`t have to use the dragon/daedric stuff. I only go to max smithing to upgrade my gear to lengedary. I still use steel ful plate, a skyforge sword.ax and an imperial shield. The armor cap is 580 or so and it`s easy to get that wearing legendary of any set. You can choose what armor set you like most most or make a legendary set for every set and switch them when the mood strikes you. That`s what I like most about the crafting system, normally in past games the very best was daedric and if you wanted to use the best you were stuck with that no matter how ugly it was. Or you could mod a steel set or whatever to have equal defense.

I also agree that dungeon crawling yeilds nothing better then I can create pretty much. After I crafted my steel gear all the gear I find is now inferior. But I also didn`t get my skills high enough to make my set until I was lvl 45 or so. And since I am over the armor cap anyway the reason to search for gear ceases and I find myself just working skills I usually don`t use but I still explore.

What would probably be a better idea would be to limit the quality you can craft lvl wise. So if at lvl 20 you can make daedric and want to use it , you could only craft it to a certain quality until you reached a higher lvl. Lets just say as the example you would need to be lvl 50 to craft items to legendary. It might make found items more viable to use and then it might not.

Since it got missed the first time. Dadric level equipment isn't really that much better than Steel equipment. Go look at the fracking numbers and see for yourself.


Here is a undeniable fact. It's easy to be a immortal god in skyrim (on master setting at level 50+) using nothing but steel grade equipment. The problems with the smithing system run so deep the whole mechanic needs a complete redesign from the ground up, along with all the equipment in the game rebalanced so that there is actual difference between them. Making it slightly harder, or nearly impossible, to reach 100 smithing changes nothing with the wacked "everything-is-the-same" equipment balance that exists.


To fix it the game needs to be deleted and done over. so yeah, TES:VI is when it'll be fixed.

You'll enjoy ROLE PLAYING GAMES a lot more if you ROLE PLAY.

Crazy notion I know.

I will enjoy role playing games a lot more if I can role play something other than murderous cave/ruin explorer.

The easy way to gate it better is to have sources of ebony/glass/orichalcum better guarded. If I were the Empire or some other local power I'd invest heavily to protect my source of high-end materials. The best sources might even be inhabited by things that make the Empire pause (think Moria). And daedra hearts should not be available at vendors, they should be a high end loot item at least.

As for the dragon gear, I'd make the useable bones and scales drop only off of the elder dragons and have the lesser ones drop only dragonhide that can be made into leather.

Finally, I'd have each material type only be able to advance you to the skill needed to make the next higher material gear, so that you can't just crank out iron daggers to advance it.

This really makes a ton more sense than the way the skill and mats are set up currently.

That is an unfair criticism. I posted this once before in another thread, but I think all of the people espousing the "It is your fault for trying to get the best stuff" viewpoint should really consider it.

Question: If the gameplay of TES centers around using the skills you choose in order to improve those same skills, and the very act of doing so makes the game way too easy, is the game playing the way Beth wants it to?

The essential distinction to be made here is between
1. playing to break the game, and
2. Using game mechanics the way they are intended

Say I am roleplaying a warrior who smiths. Is this feasible without breaking the game? Smithing is not a cheat in the game, it is a skill. As such, it is intended to be raised. It should therefore be feasible to specialize in. If I cannot specialize in smithing without ruining the game, the developers have not "given me the freedom to be overpowered", they have removed my freedom to play the game with challenge. Note the distinction between using mechanics as they are presented and intentionally trying to ruin these mechanics.
Example of intentionally breaking mechanics: finding a wall in Oblivion near a guard and sneaking while walking into the wall for hours to raise your sneak skill. This is clearly against the spirit of how the skill is supposed to be used. As such, the fault lies with the player. Why? Because if the player uses the skill normally, they will not become overpowered, and the skill will not raise too quickly. Both of these reasons are important if you take the time to contrast them with smithing.
Example of broken game mechanic: Playing a warrior who specializes in smithing. How should such a character play using the game mechanics? They should smith regularly. What is the result? They level smithing ridiculously fast and become overpowered. If using the game mechanic as such will result in breaking the game, then it is not the OPs fault for trying to level smithing.

The root of the problem: Games are designed to be challenging by nature. There is a reason that most skills will not make you overpowered simply through their normal use. This is the case because developers balance the rate of levelling and the power of that levelling such that you won't become too strong too quickly. I am not saying that you should not have the ability to become ridiculously strong, but rather that the natural course of the game should not make you overpowered. Should you want to become overpowered, you should have to consciously make that choice. I have no sympathy for people who used custom spells in Oblivion engineered to be ridiculously powerful, as they obviously knew what they were doing. If playing normally yields the same result, something is wrong.

I question the assumption in all of these posts that bettering your character makes you responsible for being overpowered. To those who accept that line of thought, I propose this hypothetical:

You like playing basketball and enjoy a challenge. You can either....
i) play against bad players shooting with your wrong hand (because it would be too easy using your proper hand)
or
ii) play against better players with your proper hand and exert yourself fully.

Which seems the better option? 2 is much more appealing because consciously gimping yourself should not be necessary. If I am roleplaying a smith in a dangerous world, would he consciously choose to gimp himself? Obviously not, so why am I required to gimp him as such? However, if my mage was told that he would have to smith 5000 more daggers in order to make that dagger twice as strong, he may not choose to invest the time. That is balancing at work. Note that in the basketball example, I may be given the possibility that if I specifically search for growth pills on the internet I can become ridiculously tall and eliminate the challenge of the game of basketball. However, this would require conscious effort on my part. I would like to see Skyrim take this approach, instead of asking me to consciously gimp myself while roleyplaying.

Ooooh brooother.

In my hypothetical where all shouts are 1-shots:

I know what using shouts will do to the difficulty of the game. I don't have to use shouts, but I will anyway. Then, I'll complain that it's ridiculous that all shouts are 1-shots. But it's clearly not Bethesda's fault that they put such an obviously poorly designed mechanism into the game. You can just ignore the poorly designed mechanisms, and thus really they were never poorly designed to begin with.


Nope.

Cpt. Hindsight

I think the lackluster loot system and quest rewards are something to consider when talking about smithing.
Almost everything you find is just trade fodder. Very few unique items and lack of appearance variety.
Then when you consider how easy it is to acquire something like daedric through smithing vs looting even at the higher levels it throws the balnce totally off.

Loot is a bit underwelming in this game and why even have barrels lootable when most of them just have couple of apples?

:D

I'm playing as a Conjurer that mostly ignores raising Smithing, Enchanthing, and Alchemy and depends on loot and vendors, as well as items which increases their effects so I can make a little bit higher level potions, refine my equipment a little better, etc. So far working out well on Master+ difficulty, but I play a Thief type and I'm only Level 25. Eventually I know the Conjuration weapons will stop scaling, I just want to see how high a level I can push 'em. At low levels they're godly, while also looking pretty darn cool. And of course raising Conjuration has other benefits.

Smithing is actually always the first thing I work on because not only can you get the best stuff at soon as possible but you can upgrade your stuff too - which is sorta even a requirement later on in the game.

I'll post in the other forums for how I got to 100 smithing within the combat lvls of 10-15.

what annoys me is that its the only way to get the best armour in the game... i wish i could get npcs to smith enchant as good as the pc can, or find equilavent in the dungeons... Im forced to level these skills if i want the most beneficial armour/enchantments.

Basically people have been brought up by World of Warcraft. MMO games where if there's an exploit, its the developers fault, and the kids abusing it are considered savy and ahead of the curve. Goes both for obvious exploits, and FotM builds that has an edge of some sort.

They take this approach into a singleplayer game, and abit dumb realise they just cheated themselves instead of others.

So when a guy says on forums; I crafted a dragon armor and pay 0 magicka for destruction. He is trying to provoke a response of whining from you. Whining that will be turned towards the developers (mom and dad replacements), hopefully making them alter the mechanics. He is having a much harder time than in MMOs of course, since you can basically care less about what he does. He will mention this, but use it as a taunt hoping you will bite.

It's all business as usual on the backseats of the car.