It's not my fault I abused smithing : V - Skyrim

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:35 pm

I actually did the same thing. Ended up leveling smithing, enchanting, alchemy 1 & 2 handed weapons, light and heavy armors and it really ended up making me a god. Of course, it took me 20 levels to realize this.

I, of course, re-rolled and decided that choosing 1 profession was the best option; keeps things interesting, since I can actually find something of value. Ultimately, for a rping standpoint, I chose Smithing -- I play in all Elven gear, because honestly, what elf wouldn't. Aside that is: from my cool mask I found off a lich, which serves no real benefit as it doesn't have any stats that are good for me, but looks cool as hell. Lydia has the other one, and together, we scare the snot out of people -- and that is a scary last face to see before I cleave your head in.

I do use lockpicking, but assigned no perks too it; saw no point really since lockpicks are so common.

Now, my experience has been 100% better. I play on expert difficulty and I find the game is actually quite challenging at times, especially when it comes down to boss fights. Had a few memorable ones -- had a deathlord, scourge and some other skeleton at the end of one and man, that battle, even with Lydia was hard and the disarming shout made things extra intersting.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:02 pm

There are two problems here.

The first problem is that that we love the Easter egg hunt for cool l00t. If we can make the best ourselves, why crawl dungeons?

The second problem is in an rpg you want to build a character up to hit hard targets. The baddest boss in the game kills you with a look in the beginning. No problem. You max your levels and it becomes barely possible to defeat him. Being able to one-shot lesser foes who were invincible before is part of the fun but if you become completely godlike then the challenge ends.

For me, I love seeing the lower scale up. I see that my arrows are starting to fling targets. Master necromancera can launch me into space like giant clubs. Building up to this power is great fun. But you can't let it happen too quickly. Mac out on l00t before the game is even partway through and the fun is diminished.

As for telling someone to not play that way, that's like cheap moves in fighting games. You can tell your friend he's being cheap but the game-breaking mechanic shouldn't be there to exploit in the first place.

Setting personal handicaps and challenges can keep a game fresh. Dead is dead is too hardcoe for me but to each their own. But it does feel like something is wrong when you have to consciously nerf your character to retain the challenge.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:45 pm

I think smithing should level by type, so you get to, say, 10 by doing iron daggers, but subsequent daggers don't improve the score--only steel does. And so on like that.

I'm not a fighter by nature. I don't like long battles, and I don't want to die. So yes, I want the best stuff so I don't have to worry about being killed while picking flowers.

Not likely given the perk tree, they most likely wont have one skill tree that can't be leveled past X point without dumping perks into it. If you gained materials crafting by skill level and not perks and the perks were then you know interesting instead of lame then this would be a valid way to control leveling of the skill.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:42 pm

I'm not sure it can be considered abusing as much as it is fast-laning through the skill. You're doing everything required and not really going outside the parameters. I do think it should be patch, though, to progressively increase with higher teir weapons and armors. Yeah yeah, "it's my game, I'll do what I want... don't abuse it if you don't want to... blah blah" but leaving it as is aleviates any point in icentives of advancing when you can iron dagger your way to 100 in twenty minutes. I'm pretty sure it was an over-sight anyway.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:49 am

Am I the ONLY one who thinks the FOUND GEAR should beat the crafted gear? The best gear in the game should be EXTREMELY rare and scatered about or used as quest rewards. Crafted gear should come in as second place. For the more lazy adventurer. Crafted stuff should NOT be the best. So either use the common storebought stuff, craft your own or find the Uber gear after lots of dungeon crawling.

If you want smithing to still be strong then allow the character to improve the unque stuff.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:27 am

Damn it, Faelix, you've figured me out. I spent hours smithing, motivated solely by my mmo instincts my desire to silently know that I was so much better than everyone else playing the game. Alas, as this was my first time with any rpg besides an mmo, I was completely unaware of the fact that in fact, knowing that I was more powerful than other people brought me no joy, as I could not specifically see the newbie weaklings and how OP I was compared to them. I tried going on the forums, finding people who "roleplayed" and thus as a result had inferior characters, and tried to inform them how much better my character was, but they did not seem to care! This was my only hope for joy in buying skyrim - my one hope was that it would be a chance for me to assert my superiority over others to make up for a clear lack of self-esteem I had to deal with while growing up. My only option was to turn to making topics like these, in the hopes that my complaints would frustrate and anger other players, thus giving me the sense that I had bested them, in at least some regard, saluaging some value from the game for myself. Oh and of course, you were spot on about Beth being a replacement for my parents. My parents, you see, didn't really love me growing up. My father was always too preoccupied with his work to show me compassion, and my mother spent her days regretting her decision to marry my father, the heartless, shallow, greedy man that he was, paying no attention to me. As a result I developed a strong resentment towards my parents. Unfortunately, my bratty ways as a child did not satisfy my desire to rebel against my parents. Being away from them now and feeling I've lost the opportunity to exact my revenge, the obvious choice was for my psyche to substitute in a game developer for my parents. Now I can rage against Beth as I slowly relieve the hateful emotions I had towards my parents growing up. But, you, Faelix, you figured me out! Damn you, Faelix!

No, seriously, though, while from your writing your literacy seems at least somewhat suspect ("and abit dumb realise they just cheated themselves"), I'm relatively confident that a reading through the thread will be somewhat enlightening.

Good day to you, sir!

I know true and meaningful breakthroughs are often confronted with rage and attacks on the messenger, but trust me, you will get through this and come out on the other side.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:31 pm

I know true and meaningful breakthroughs are often confronted with rage and attacks on the messenger, but trust me, you will get through this and come out on the other side.

pro tip: baseless trolling attacking someone's character is less cute the second time

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:16 am

Really, the problem isn't the fact that smithing is OP, its that its very easy to get it to OP levels and the actual smithing/crafting component is basic as hell to where you just need a few simple ingredients, and it gives you instant effortless reward.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:30 pm

Hold on! You're game's not ruined!

Here's an awesome plan:
1) sell the awesome, unstoppable weapons you crafted
2) buy something cheaper, or grab a honed ancient nord something-or-other, or otherwise equip yourself. Forsworn swords look pretty badass. Ditto falmer axes and shields
3) sell the awesome unkillable armor pieces you've crafted or give them to a follower
4) buy something cheap, or cheaper and use it (or only use stuff you find whilst questing)
5) realize that crafting is a conscious choice you are making and you can consciously choose NOT to do it too
6) thank me for showing you the fact that even though you might have access to better stuff doesn't mean you are literally forced to use it and stop whining about the game being ruined for you, especially while for many players (or would-be players) their games are ACTUALLY ruined/unplayable

You're welcome

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:46 pm

Am I the ONLY one who thinks the FOUND GEAR should beat the crafted gear? The best gear in the game should be EXTREMELY rare and scatered about or used as quest rewards. Crafted gear should come in as second place. For the more lazy adventurer. Crafted stuff should NOT be the best. So either use the common storebought stuff, craft your own or find the Uber gear after lots of dungeon crawling.

If you want smithing to still be strong then allow the character to improve the unque stuff.

Then crafting would be panned as a useless thing to do in that case. Why bother when you can run through 1/2 dozen dungeons at the start of a new character and be a god as a result. Just look at all the different strategies players dreamed up to kill Umbra in Oblivion at low levels for an example of why it wouldn't work.

No, taking player freedom away (level restrictions) to prevent that from happening wouldn't be popular in the slightest. What few of those kind of level restrictions that are in Skyrim now is already too many.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:52 pm

I liked that I could max out smithing and enchanting and make a longbow do nearly 60 damage. I don't do the whole "min-max" thing, I just accept what I can create at 100 in each skill with a few enchantments. Alchemy is a waste of my time.

That seemed reasonable to me, so it's the bow I use now. (Occasionally I take the ol' Ebony bow for a spin just to one-shot guards and such- merely a recreational tool, not my primary weapon!)

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:38 am

Am I the ONLY one who thinks the FOUND GEAR should beat the crafted gear?

As I mentioned earlier... for me, found gear HAS been better than crafted gear. Unless you combine all the crafting skills, maxed out.

I've FOUND gear with enchantments on it that I can't duplicate, because my Enchanting skill isn't good enough. I can't craft better gear than the things I find. (And this is with 100 Smithing plus a couple +Smith armor pieces I found in chests.) What I use Smithing for is to improve the found items, and to craft gear for the equipment slots that I haven't found decent items for. (random loot, yay!)

Now, yes - if I'd also pushed my Enchanting up to 100, perked it out, and used the handful of +Enchant potions I've dug up in tombs, I could make better gear. But this is only after jumping through a good number of hoops. So that's fine.
(And even then, many of the unique enchanted items have effects that you can't duplicate.)

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:29 pm

I haven't smithed one Item. Loot is my thing.

Cheers

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:19 pm

TES games really like to shout about 'learn by doing' then make the leveling scheme so shallow that it is broken. If BGS actually took the time to set up the leveling scheme for skills so that the character has to perform increasingly heroic feats to increase their aptitude there would be no issues with 'exploitation'. Unfotrunately, BGS puts almost no effort in the actual 'game' part of their RPGs. They may be good for role-playing (I don't think so, but enough players do that I won't argue that), but they fail at the game.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:22 pm

You guys all forget, that dumping points into non-combat skills like smithing/enchanting "may" give you the idea of making the game easy, but it's you, who choose not to dump points into, instead into combat skills- you supposed to have it easy. I have smithing at 90 and Enchanting at 90 so far, being an arcane smith with enchanting, I can make epic weapons now with the help of potions and smithing skill booster enchantments. Sure I fight with an daedric weapon with "epic" damage, but I don't have stamina, for example, neither more than 2 points in armsman, and my health points svck.
The fun part is, that nobody can get close to me, because my magicka is superb, but if they do, I have to have some potions with me because I got zero blocking skill and terrible close combat skills and I can get easily slaughtered. Add to the fun, I wear no armor.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:40 am

Do you know what I'm angry about.

I bought the Sims, and I was able to use one person to clean, work and do everything, while my other Sim maxed out their skills and friends and got the best paying job in the game, and the biggest house, within hours of playing the game and the game was made too easy because I could just do and buy anything.

Electronic Arts should have fixed this obvious exploit.. its absolutely ridiculous.

That just makes my blood boil. As a gamer I want a challenge!

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:05 pm

Do you know what I'm angry about.

I bought the Sims, and I was able to use one person to clean, work and do everything, while my other Sim maxed out their skills and friends and got the best paying job in the game, and the biggest house, within hours of playing the game and the game was made too easy because I could just do and buy anything.

Electronic Arts should have fixed this obvious exploit.. its absolutely ridiculous.

That just makes my blood boil. As a gamer I want a challenge!

This is not The Sims: Tamriel. Simulators and RPGs are different things.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:29 am

This is not The Sims: Tamriel. Simulators and RPGs are different things.

Then you have to agree that not all games are designed to be challenging. Frankly, there are more similarities with the sims than with call of duty.

You cannot demand that all games are supposed to be challenging, and any obvious feature which allows the game to be played easily without challenge should be fixed.

If you overcome the natural instinct to be snobbish over games, you'd realise that the sims and Skyrim have a lot in common, in regards to an approach which allows the player to create a character to interact with the world presented. The main difference is that there is a storyline that can be followed.

Also, while its not my cup of tea, I would not object(except for aforementioned snobbishness) to someone calling the sims an RPG, its far closer to one than for instance, zelda.

EDIT: Without getting sidetracked, the point is that as a gamer, you should be able to adapt to what the game is asking of you, in order to enjoy it. A gamer would adapt to the Sims, recognising that the fun was not in beating the game. The same is even more true for Skyrim, in a series that is famous for your ability to overpower. The only real argument is that it was more obvious this time.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:19 pm

I never quite understood this, I don't mean this offensively, but genuine curiosity,

But, its not as if its hidden, what did you expect the best armour to do?

Why did you need to create something that exceeded necessity? Bringing a gun to a knifefight.

This isn't a flame, I've written so many essays in threads like this, and these things have never been answered.

It's a clash between two driving forces. One causes him to seek out the best possible items. He works hard and spends a lot of time to achieve this goal.

The other wants him to feel challenged. He wants to be the underdog in situations who barely makes it out alive.

As you can see, this creates two contradictory forces and he feels confused, helpless and let down.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:07 am

"It was your choice OP, you min-maxed and got what you deserved!"
That's what you usually hear. Am i the only one who /facepalms every time i hear that?

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:49 pm

Why are you arresting me? If it's possible to commit murder, how is it my fault?

:tongue:

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:17 pm

I disagree with all of you who think smithing and enchanting is overpowered. It's not. It's your choice to run around dressed like Mel Gibson in Braveheart. It's also my choice to run around in improved Nightingale armor with the shrouded cowl that does 20% extra bow damage. And I'm still trying to come to grips with everyone stating fast travel is bad. Do you people have jobs, families, or go to school? Nobody is going turn to their spouse and say, " Sure honey. I'll run to the store as soon as I get my character from Riften to Solitude by foot." You're probably going to be the same person scratching their head when your spouse leaves you and wins custody of your children.

Fast travel is not bad.
Smithing and enchanting is not bad. How can it be when a Bandit Plunderer can end your well equipped character with a few blows from a non-enchanted Iron War Hammer?

You play your way and I'll play mine. I don't use horses because I think they were poorly implemented and dismounting take too long. But, I'm not gonna tell you now to use one.

ADDED NOTE: You bring a gun to knife fight to end it fast. While the other guy is trying to psyche you out with his fancy knife moves, you put a bullet in his head. You obviously have never served in the military if you don't understand that.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:36 pm

I agree, the found stuff should be the best. Gives you incentive to explore and you can never exactly plan on what you will find thus giving a bit of chance to what you equip.

Here's Nother thought. Why can't you melt down the scrap you find in the game? You should be able to melt down old swords and the like.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:10 pm

found stuff is bad?

what the hell... i found daedric boots with 35% sneak enchant and daedric gloves with +20% or so 1hand dmg enchant. i got 100 smithing, but can't enchant my items that good by myself, which makes them superior to mine.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:09 pm

yes you did... becuse of MMORPG peeps like you , stuff gets taken out of the games... so stop this already... "ENCHANTING IS OP, SMITHING IS OP"... NERF MAGES... who gives a flying [censored] about this in a single player...