I don't see how the inclusion of Elves makes it lower fantasy.

Something set on a world that is distinct from our own is high fantasy, period.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Skull_Crusher

(And yeah, I want it back...)

I think the swords and armor look great. I don't see where you are getting high fantasy from what we've seen.

I disagree. In my opinion, whether a setting is high fantasy or low fantasy correlates in a large degree to the prevalence of magic in the setting.

Not really, but has been a common trend lately to make the racial tension feel more realistic.

i agree with merari and dragonbone, the tes universe is most definately a high fanstasy setting but that doesnt mean the armour has to look over the top or ridiculous, which from the few shots we have seen i dont believe it does, but a few peices of insanely cool impractical armour never hurt anybody (well maybe the wearer, chaffing is nasty oo:)

I beg to differ.

I think Tood mentioned his preference for Western Low Fantasy as opposed to Japanese High Fantasy RPGs, at the very least implying he deems TES series a Western Low Fantasy RPG franchise. And I'd agree.

Gameinformer feature, if memory serves me well.

Personally, I think TES fits more under it's own unique category, Mid Fantasy. It's got some High fantasy such as magic and deities but it also has a low fantasy setting.

As I said: Todd using the wrong definition doesnt mean we have to fall suit.
Hes not god, his word is not law and he can make mistakes or get definitions wrong.
As in this particular case.

SkullCrusher!! The only reason I did the Imperial cult quests!

I'm almost positive Todd Howard called TES high fantasy in one of the recent video interviews. I remember when he said it making a mental note about it.


Todd Howard: No, not at all. I think when people see a mushroom they go, “Morrowind!” It’s more doing high fantasy, so Morrowind is more high fantasy. The idea with doing an expansion pack is that people have seen that, and with an expansion pack you can do something to visually set it apart. Instantly, even in one screenshot, it’s like, “That’s different.” We wanted to go more high fantasy—that’s really where the look comes from.


At the end of the day, it's semantics. TES is TES, call it high or low or whatever, they aren't conforming to any specific limitations. They're doing what they want.

Would I like it more realistic? Sure, that would suit me just fine, and first on my chopping block would be ALL magic. Rip all of the preposterous and badly conceived magic out of it, crush it under my heel, and then laugh with joy at it being gone forever. Then I would take out all the illogical small cities, road system made to make a small map seem larger, and the weird cookie cutter cultures that seemingly apply to all races.

Yet, changing all that would strike people as "not elder scrolls". Thus I just deal with it being what it is because that what it has to be because that is what is has been before. I do not need to be perfectly happy with all the design choices to enjoy the game.

On this particular topic, I lack the motivation to dig that reference up, though I'm quite sure of it.
But i could be wrong.

Anyways, those terms are relative. If you're going to deem TES high fantasy, them what are you left with when it comes to some JRPG? Ultra-high fantasy?

And still none of the discussers notice Jack254 sitting silently in the shadows, chuckling at the havoc he's wreaked.

It's more the stories that makes the difference between high and low fantasy.
It's perfectly possible to have a "low fantasy" in an extreme universe with lot's of superpowers, crazy architecture and unicorns with plasma-rifles riding half-dragon half-whales in space.

It just happens that realism suits low fantasy better and high fantasy often lends itself to really go over the top.
But there are exceptions. Planescape Torment for example is low fantasy in a crazy world full of wizards, parallel universes and bizarre monsters.

High fantasy:

-lot's of eccentric, yet simple characters.
-duality (good guys vs the bad guys).
-from the perspective of a global cataclysmic event.

Low fantasy:

-realistic, more complex characters.
-grey morality
-from the perspective of on one or several main character(s).

Huh. Hadn't even noticed it's a jack thread. Hmm.


-----

Meanwhile, ignoring all the high/low stuff - the armor & weapons seen so far have been consistant with the previous TES games. So, they're fine.

/thread

Well, that depends on how you use the word. I would say it IS High Fantasy, because this normally just means that it takes place in an imaginary world, not the real one. It's true that it isn't as fantastical as, let's say, WoW, but it's High Fantasy. For TES I would use a term of my own creation (and therefore, not the best one): Hard High Fantasy.

How do TES games fit into that picture? High or Low?

Why deem them anything at all? It's Elder Scrolls. It's unique in its own right. And honestly, I can't think of too many JRPGs that are more high fantasy than TES, but then all that's really coming to mind is Persona and Final Fantasy.


Actually, he logged off about an hour after posting this and so far has yet to log back on. I'm pretty sure he just posts and then leaves, believing we all start a revolution and enforce his ideas for years to come. When in reality, most people disagree with a lot of what he says.

Both.

Main quest = high.
Nord lost his clothes... again? = low.

I don't think killmoms enjoys jack254's awful critiquing...

TES? Low fantasy?

[img]http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs27/f/2008/113/6/4/Lord_Sheogorath_by_IrethFalassion.jpg[/img]

You guys have been playing WoW and DA2 too much if you consider TES low fantasy. Last time I played Oblivion I teleported to 50 different dimensions battling armies of daedra whilst jumping in the air off of lava...

I'd think High. You've got a Destined Hero, interacting with Big Important People / Events / Gods, saving The World.... not things I associate with low fantasy. (Of course, the definitions I picked up over the years are, again, slightly different than everyone else's. Low fantasy to me has always been like.... Joe Dude just trying to make it through life. Slogging through mud & peasants, having to worry about "normal people stuff" like head colds & finding enough to eat, certainly never having anything to do with Grand Events, in a low-or-no magic world. Like those pen-and-paper RPGs that have settings similar to Earth's middle- or dark-ages, but maybe with the addition of a bit of magic & monsters..... which, for me, puts things like TES and LotR firmly in High Fantasy. :shrug:)

The question in itself is unsubstantial to me, really. I was challenging the claim TES series is High Fantasy.
Bottom line: I have yet to see traces of High Fantasy (a la JRPGs) in SKyrim, getting back to the OP.

Eeeeh, no.

This is more like deep story or shallow story, fantasy subgenre doesn't have anything to do with that.

Baldur's Gate is based on Forgotten Realms which is as High Fantasy as it gets, but it's definitely not a shallow story.