Not really a civil war. : V

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:12 am

It's the empire fighting rebels. I just realized. It's not really a civil war. Ulfric is fighting the empire. It's a rebellion, not really a civil war.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:33 am

and your definition of civil war is....?

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:55 pm

It's the empire fighting rebels. I just realized. It's not really a civil war. Ulfric is fighting the empire. It's a rebellion, not really a civil war.

isn't that what the Confederacy did when the southern states decided to rebell against the Union?....It was a rebellion, but it was also a war that split a united country, just like what's happening in Skyrim.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:38 am

and your definition of civil war is....?

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:55 am

Two of the same people fighting each other. Like the American Civil War, or the British Civil War.

Two political factions of the same nationality fighting each other in one country.

To put into an American Example, Idaho revolts, so the Government sends in soldiers to quell the rebellion.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:52 am

More like a revolution?

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:27 am

and your definition of civil war is....?

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:46 am

Two of the same people fighting each other. Like the American Civil War, or the British Civil War.

Two political factions of the same nationality fighting each other in one country.

To put into an American Example, Idaho revolts, so the Government sends in soldiers to quell the rebellion.

thats what they do. nord empire friends vs nord nord friends

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:58 am

Two of the same people fighting each other. Like the American Civil War, or the British Civil War.

Two political factions of the same nationality fighting each other in one country.

To put into an American Example, Idaho revolts, so the Government sends in soldiers to quell the rebellion.

Yes and Skyrim is part of Tamriel the COUNTRY. People don't realize that places like Morrowind, Cyrodiil and Skyrim are just states/provinces as part of the whole to make up the country of Tamriel.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:02 am

Yes and Skyrim is part of Tamriel the COUNTRY. People don't realize that places like Morrowind, Cyrodiil and Skyrim are just states/provinces as part of the whole to make up the country of Tamriel.

Tamriel is the continent, not the nation and yes this is a civil war, its citizens of the empire fighting each other. Some dont want to be citizens of the Empire anymore.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:15 pm

Ulfric killed the king. It's a Civil War/Rebellion. Hell even Colonel Tigh calls it a Rebellion, but you're playing semantics and who really cares?

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:33 am

No, trust me It's a civil war.

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:03 pm

The OP is correct, in a sense.

Classically, a civil war is a war in which a fractured nation wages war with itself. That is to say that a whole nation broke apart and now the two parts (or more) fight with each other. This is different from a rebellion/revolution in the sense that factional elements within the sound whole fighting (rebellion) is not the same as a fractured nation of warring states (civil war). By this definition, the OP is correct in that the war between Ulfric and the Empire is really a rebellion.

Now if half of Skyrim suddenly seceded and formed a new state which then waged war with the original state, you'd have a civil war.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:16 am

More like a revolution?

It's a revolution if the subtrators win and the seat of power is transformed. It's a civil war if the subtractors lose, and the dirty word of 'rebels' is forever stapled to thier cause.

If the south would of won in the US. It would have been a revolution. If the US would have lost against the British than history wouldn't have called it the "Revolutionary War". They'd have named it 'that one time those rebels tried to start "civil" unrest'.\\

Either way independence, or the fear of losing it, is usually at the heart of any federally mandated murder campaigns.

History is written, and defined, by the victory (in this case the Dahvakiin.)

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:03 am

The OP is correct, in a sense.

Classically, a civil war is a war in which a fractured nation wages war with itself. That is to say that a whole nation broke apart and now the two parts (or more) fight with each other. This is different from a rebellion/revolution in the sense that factional elements within the sound whole fighting (rebellion) is not the same as a fractured nation of warring states (civil war). By this definition, the OP is correct in that the war between Ulfric and the Empire is really a rebellion.

Now if half of Skyrim suddenly seceded and formed a new state which then waged war with the original state, you'd have a civil war.

I agree with this. It's a rebellion unless Ulfric and his men create their own separate state. They have not done that, as a state requires population, territory, soverenity, and government. In Skyrim it's more of a 'Hey we are rebelling, are you on our side?' and all the town leaders may or may not pledge allegiance to a certain side.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:29 am

Nah.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:54 am

The OP is correct, in a sense.

Classically, a civil war is a war in which a fractured nation wages war with itself. That is to say that a whole nation broke apart and now the two parts (or more) fight with each other. This is different from a rebellion/revolution in the sense that factional elements within the sound whole fighting (rebellion) is not the same as a fractured nation of warring states (civil war). By this definition, the OP is correct in that the war between Ulfric and the Empire is really a rebellion.

Now if half of Skyrim suddenly seceded and formed a new state which then waged war with the original state, you'd have a civil war.

Citizens of Skyrim are citizens of the empire, who are fighting citizens of the Empire. This is very similar to the United State Civil war in which several states attempted to break away from the United States, i.e. Stormcloaks = Confederates.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:05 am

Citizens of Skyrim are citizens of the empire, who are fighting citizens of the Empire. This is very similar to the United State Civil war in which several states attempted to break away from the United States, i.e. Stormcloaks = Confederates.

Yes and no. When the southern states seceded from the union, they ceased to exist as States of the American Union. The south had its own president and government through the course of the war. In this sense, there were two countries fighting each other, but what made it a civil war is that the two countries had originally existed as one.

Classification of the conflict has nothing to do with the people fighting, and more to do with the status of the nation(s) they belong to.

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:06 pm

To give it an American history anology, I think it's a lot more like the American Revolutionary War than the American Civil War. It seems more like an imperial power fighting to stop a region from breaking away from its imperial holdings than it does a group previously with similar political power simply seceding, resulting in a war.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:39 am

Citizens of Skyrim are citizens of the empire, who are fighting citizens of the Empire. This is very similar to the United State Civil war in which several states attempted to break away from the United States, i.e. Stormcloaks = Confederates.

But the Confederates actually broke off an made their own defined state, which they were then fighting to make free of the norther Union land. In Skyrim, it's people spread all through Skyrim, fighting for ultimate control. They have no defined territory, no state, and do not wish only to get out of the empires power, but to overthrow it entirely.

I would certainly call this a rebellion. Not a civil war.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:24 am

Civil Wars happen because one faction or part of a country wants to Rebel against the Established Order or Rulers.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:12 am

On Nirn, Province = Country

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:30 am

Ulfric is a political leader who rules Windhelm. Yes it's a Civil War.

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:37 pm

It's the empire fighting rebels. I just realized. It's not really a civil war. Ulfric is fighting the empire. It's a rebellion, not really a civil war.

This is wrong. Haven't read the entire thread yet, but I assume it's been explained "why" already. If it has not:

Skyrim is not a seperate nation fighting for independence, it is part of a larger empire, and has always been since the very beginning. It wasn't a province that was dominated, like Blackmarsh or Elsweyr, it was where the Empire was born. Skyrim is as Imperial as the Imperial province, itself. The Stormcloak Rebellion is a rebellion, true, but it is also a civil war.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:14 am

definitely a civil war, your thinking of a revolution