Most level headed people will examine a suggestion that goes against their belief of a system, be it dialogue or whatever and may then take certain elements they like the sound of and add their own twist to it. Hence leading to innovation or to a lesser degree some sort of evolution of their original belief. They may still reject it, but if it is potrayed in a better light without the elements of 'us and them' it's more likely to be noticed and taken account of.

Even the Catholic church changed the 'Holy Ghost' to the 'Holy Spirit', changes to systems or beliefs that are apparently cast in stone are not unheard of.

Maybe I'm just naive, I don't know. But the majority of posters here are intelligent and that intelligence can be put to better use than being hostile, thus rendering their ideas unnoticed.

EDIT- The whole point of my last couple of posts, is that there isn't that clear of a dividing line between people that is being put forward here. Every person has their own unique opinion and there is common ground to be found there.

Amen.

All I know is, Fallout 3's ruleset and writing doesn't live upto the series prior, it looks like Fallout with none of the feel, in both story and values. If that means I'm picking a side, well hell, I guess I am.

It doesn't then, help when someone comes along and makes the reality of such a divide so obvious, that it then becomes another point of dicussion, and something else for two or more sides to disagree on.

There is afterall, only a dividing line if someone believes there is. Unless the dividing line is simply difference in opinion between different people, in which case, that is the whole point of forum dicussion. So what exactly needs to be said if not to try and disregard the criticisms of one or more parties, on the basis that they are 'us' or 'them'.

I fail to see the point. I am only us or them because someone points it out. I disagree that Fallout 3 does enough right, and that puts me on a side, whether I choose it or not.

You are taking this in the completely wrong way.

For the Catholic church example, that's a not a change in belief. That'd be akin to them switching away from the trinity, for example. But really, you think a developer in his mind with all his experience and achievement (his perspective obviously) is going to really take criticism from some schmuck on the internet over a design philosophy ? Changing the game to not end is a bit lighter than revamping SPECIAL to make it relevant, or at least I'd think. And you don't have to be hostile, the way everyone sees, but by the act of disagreeing we've already become hostile. On every design issue there is a dividing line, pretty apparent, for this one, you have the people that believe the stats should matter the most and others that like a free-form LARP-in-a-game type of play.

I can't speak for all old school fans, but my problem isn't with the newer fans at all. The only time I argue with them is when I feel that they're doing a disservice to us oldies, and the old Fallouts out of ignorance. My frustrations lie purely with Bethesda.