You're completely misunderstanding me. Auto-block is a good mechanic. I enjoy it in Jedi Knight a lot as well as in Morrowind. But timed block is also a good mechanic I like, hence the "or". My problem is if we'll have timed block then block as a skill is not needed because of physics. I want no damage when I block with my shield. If I got damage with a shield then it is useless. I want some realism. I am all for mount&blade combat. And yes, I don't want armor skills too.

Oblivion's blocking system was waaay too easy. After while blocking became so easy, because all you had to do was hold the block button all day and just hide behind your shield. Timed-blocking is better because it actually makes you think about what you are doing in a combat situation.

you are going to have to watch the body of your enemies

This is the first I've heard of this. Is this a timed block that means you must be blocking on impact?

I too would prefer an auto block that acts as a passive ability; but since Skyrim is really going for an 'Action Adventure' format... I wonder why they don't copy "Die By The Sword" outright?
Seriously! The game could optionally implement Kinect (or other motion capture solution), as well as the keyboard & mouse.

"Die By The Sword" had far better melee combat than Oblivion or Fallout 3, and it shipped along side Fallout 2.

In DBTS you had to block manually (by putting your sword in front of the enemy's weapon); and the game allowed the player full positional control over it. Not only that but Damage was based on how hard you hit (a physics calculation).

The game also had full 'limb by limb' damage and dismemberment; and death by decapitation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef2HVYW4Ez4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BtLc4jCON0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvfcrmOCWxE#t=01m11s
**This third video shows what I mean... at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvfcrmOCWxE#t=05m26s the PC knocks the enemy down and the enemy's sword bounces off of the ground and injures the PC from the impact. (Notice that the enemy only has one leg by this point in the fight.)

And this game is from 1998.

It's not useless. You block some damage, and block more the higher your block level is+ how well you time it. Maybe it's not ideal but that's probably the best way to use it while keeping control in the players hands; it's the way I prefer anway. I just don't find a shield popping up now and then engaging in the least.

I'm a little curious about this now too, since a few people are talking about it. I've read that you cannot hide behind your shield for example. So lets say technically I did that, would the enemy try and hit around it? Or will my shield just not offer as much protection from a hit, even though I'm still behind it? Or maybe my character would just stumble back a little, losing footing a bit, maybe shield comes down a ways while regaining balance, meanwhile the enemy has an opportunity to gain a successful hit? hmmm....

plz tell me this was sarcasm!

If it works anything like the plethora of mods for Oblivion then you can still just hold your shield up but you will receive more damage than if you just had it idle and pressed the block button at the right time. They could be doing something fancy with it but they haven't made mention of it.

Timed blocking?

HHHOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRAYYYYY!!!!!!!!! :celebration:

Seriously folks, this is excellent news. Just holding the block key is lame; having to time it requires more skill and adds rhythm to the combat. What's wrong with that? It's like the focus attack or the parry in Street Fighter, which is a good thing.

The "Deadly Reflexes" mod for Oblivion has an option for Timed Blocks (As well as finishers, kicks and mounted combat). The longer you hold down the Block button, the less effective the block is, holding it down any more than 2 secs basically makes it worthless. Pretty good training for how Blocking will be in Skyrim.

I don't think it's timed quite that precisely tbh, I think it just means you can't hold up your shield forever and expect to properly block every attack like you could in oblivion. Maybe more like when they start to move you block then you get the full benefit possible for your level and less and less the longer before the attack you blocked. Somewhere in there the shield bashing comes in though because I'm sure I read bashing is done by holding the block button, which I think should have it's own dedicated button but timing bashing too could make it just as interesting I suppose.

Depends on what block related perks they might have It'll also depend on balance decisions about how fast or slow the different weapons are swung. I imagine a big two handed hammer swing will be easier to time a block against than a manic bosmer with his wildly flailing daggers of deadly annoyance. It's also probably a lot more important to time the block against that slower two handed pile-driver.

I would hope that poorly timed blocks still still damage related to the shield/weapon and your skill albeit a fraction of what a perfectly timed block. If timing is used to determine effects like skillfully away the attack (and very briefly interupting/staggering them maybe) as well as the degree of damage reduction out of the maximum based on your skill and shield type then I don't really see a problem. It makes the shield less boring to use and rewards you for using it well. I'll have to wait until I see what kind of shield related perks/abilities might be available. Norse and celtic warriors did a lot more stuff with their shields than just hold them out between themselves and the other guys point sharp bits. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-Ms9RMH7IA Heck the Norse round shield was designed to pivot freely about the hand so it could be used to deflect an and brought about as part of a lunge attack. They could be used in a way not dissimilar to how defensive daggers like a main gauche were used - just with more emphasis on the defense.

More importantly - if they actually let you use a shield like the Norse used shields it'll be more fun. It would be hilarious if the right perk or two could let you bash things to death with shields. I would rather be able to do things with a shield besides have it be a sheet of metal I hold out when I take the "I take less damage now" button. The character skill should play a significant roll in how effective they are and probably determine what special moves/perks can be purchased that use a shield. At the same time I think providing an incentive for actively using the shield in a more challenging and thoughtful way than you would in a Zelda game is a very good thing. Sure, rhytmless people like myself should not find shields rendered useless, but if they be more useful and do more than just reduce damage then I'm all for it.

Of course - that has a lot to do with what kinds of special shield moves are available. If it's just a piece of 'I take less damage" sheet metal weilded to your arm then even with the challenge and reward for a well timed block I'll probably go with a spellswordy style of play - I'll use that dragon shout that throws enemies back as a more dramatic means of defending against attacks.

yeah that was sarcasm lol maybe a little too much for that comment though :whistling:

I don't think that have said how good your timing will have to be right? I am sure that you will be able to predict the NPCs' movements just like in OB, but I can see why you would be concerned with it too. Don't want to be frustrating just like trying to do the flourish in Demon's souls :banghead:

Since I mentioned it earlier, I feel my proposed idea is more relevant now. Multiple types of shields would add realism and add a little bit of simplistic variety. The larger the shield, the less you have to time the block, but the more it weighs and the slower you are. Smaller shields have to be used much more actively but slow you less and are much lighter. More akin the difference between real life tower shields, bucklers, and anything in between.

Sounds like a good way to go about it to me

Yeah, I'm a bit wary of the new system as well.... I'm not the world's greatest "twitch" gamer, so being told that I may just be stuck without the Block skill (depending on how the game works - I've played RPGs with action-block/counter mechanisms that I just could never get the hang of) is a bit depressing.

If the game is becoming more action oriented then it's kind of expected to be harder for the more pure RPG players. Though, if they don't stray too far from my experience with timed block mods in oblivion, it is still pretty easy to react to and far from twitch game play.

Even with timed blocks, this is not counter strike.

Shield bashing would be awesome. They want more realism? Implement shield bashing! They're really pushing the whole duel wielding thing, so the opportunity to use your shield in that manner seems a natural extension.

Timed blocks would be fantastic too, even more so if they make it directional as well. And I agree, different shield types/sizes ought to affect how the blocking works. I'm sure they have plans of how the skills/perks will affect the mechanics of it, and you'd think that they've already thought of how different shields would work - whether it be as simple as one material taking more damage before breaking than another, being heavier so slower to block with.

That'd make for higher realism. Greater immersion into combat that is more challenging.

I think I'd really just like to see Mount & Blade style melee combat implemented somehow. But this would probably be harder to handle - if not impossible? - with a console controller. Consoles and their controllers, it'll limit what they can do, surely. Give me a mouse and keyboard any day... Haha unfortunately I am kind of expecting I'll have to get Skyrim for my 360 because my computer will be too old - and it's only like 6 months old now. Technology, huh?

shield bashing is confirmed to be in, holding down your block button will shield bash.

Which means you cannot hold your block in place even if you want to, and that kind of annoys me. I understand the point of implementing timed blocks, but there are reasons for holding your block up for both realistic and in game reasons. Realistically, a large enough shield is meant to be between you and your enemy at most points, as opposed to keeping your shield down and catching their attacks. In the game as it is though, advancing on an archer's position reasonably calls for hiding behind my shield and advancing steadily. Keeping my shield down and catching arrows when they're on their way seems a bit silly.

Not to mention impossible if where going for realism, the Myth busters proved this with the whole "arrow catching" thing we see in martial arts movies.

Stonewall blocking in Oblivion was just too broken. "Timed" Blocking simulates the natural vulnerability of the shield, since you can't cover every angle. I wouldn't mind a "Die Roll" Block either, and the second trigger just operates the bash effect. Basically, any direction is better than Oblivion's "Shields are overpowered so if you don't use a shield you're screwed" mechanics.

It's probably worth mentioning, we don't know the exact timing details, I am taking a guess, but I'm going to assume that Shields actually have a rather large "Block window" where they are actively engaged before either bashing or being lowered, and Two-handed weapons have a significantly lower "Block window" but also faster bashing. It's generally pretty easy to predict when an archer is going to release an arrow, I can assure everyone that you aren't going to need "Twitch" block reflexes, at least for shields.

Yeah, timed blocking is being used to liven up combat a little, but for both realism and variety I think directional blocking would be more appropriate unless you're using a buckler.

True, but it depends on what kind of shield were dealing with. Full body shields where meant to deflect or absorb incoming arrows, just like riot shields today are meant to deflect income projectiles. Now granted both would be awkward to wield in a melee because of there bulk, but that's now what they were meant for.