That is unlikely. Whether the character is based around an attribute system or not is the kind of thing that's generally hardcoded, and beyond the reach of modders to change. For example, lots of people complained about the skills lost going to Oblivion, but how many mods functionally added any back? I've seen lots of "spears", but they're ultimately just blades with a different model. I haven't seen any spear skills. It's of course far too early to know how exactly the system will work in Skyrim, but whatever it is, don't expect modders to be able to replace it entirely.

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Indeed it is not a reason to be depressed about, it's just a pity. They could have greatly expanded on the current system but they decided to trow it away.

Qouted for truth.

To your first point; I truly believe that their new philodophy of 'learning by doing' is a step in the right direction. You need to look at it as you choose what you want to level by physically doing it in the game rather than it does it for you. You are doing by going out there and experiencing the world rather than looking at a set of numbers. It's hard to say until we've seen more of the game, there's still alot information we simply don't have.

To the second; it's less like a spreadsheet because of the presentation. The numbers may still be there but they're now in the background. What makes it a spreadsheet is the design of the interface, and none of us can truly speak to that until we've seen it.

Sorry that bethesda are trying to make money and not just satisfy a very small niche of it's community. Jesus Christ not having attributes hardly changes anything anyway in my eyes. Why don't you just take morrowind and play that then. How does a perk system with many more combination compare to an attribute system?

that had nothing to do with it. enemies were leveld to your numerical level, not your attribute. MW had the same attribute system (+ several more skills) and did not have that problem. it was impossible to beat MW MQ (at least extremely improbabable) at level 2, because the strength of enemies was set.



thats a misconception. it seemed that way because your main skills in MW were meant to be the skills that you were good at, and you picked them so that you could effectivly strike enemies when using a main skill weapon. the removal of the skill check system in combat changed the nature of main skills. they should have called the main skill something else like attribute skills because your main skills in OB were not necessarily the skills you were supposed to be good at because missing in combat was no longer possible. in order to smartly improve your stats you choose main skillls that you used only infrequently so you did not power level. and your minor skills you increased without increasing your level so that you can get the most out of improving your attributes when you do.

You've gotta be kidding me. Everything I've seen so far is indicating far more customization and far better character advancement. And that's from a guy who far prefers Morrowind's complexity to Oblivion's simplification. I can't really say anything else constructive though cause if you didn't listen to what Todd Howard said, why the hell would you listen to me?

I really like the new system, it sounds like its going to be great.

The removal of attributes doesn't really bum me out. In Morrowind and Oblivion, if you leveled all of your skills to 100, then you were unstoppable in every regard. In Skyrim, even if you did get all skill to 100, you still wouldn't have all the perks, therefore you would still be specialized to some degree. It sounds like the perks are going to MORE than make up for the loss of attributes. Overall, we are going to have a net gain here in character customization. Not to mention the endless combat possibilities, awesome and detailed NPCs, ect.

I think we're looking at the best Elder Scrolls game yet.



I disagree. Of course they were the skills you were supposed to specialize in. The bad thing is that it wasn't the smart thing to do. With this new system, we can finally say goodbye to the age old problem of efficient leveling. I will now have a worry free leveling experience, something both Oblivion and Morrowind lacked.

Pretty much, they cut something and its 'evolution'? give me a break, evolving means fixing whats wrong and adding in things.

I'm a little nervous, too, not quite seeing how the pieces are going to fit together, but that doesn't mean that they won't do so--and masterfully. If the changes mean less time spent meta-gaming mechanics and more time spent adventuring, while presenting us with interesting character development options, that will be a good thing. Punching mud crabs to increase character strength was not so fun that I'm totally closed to other options. And, of course, the down side of athletics as a skill was starting out with a painfully slow walking speed ...

So So Bukee, if they are leaning towards FO3.....how are attribute checks which are a hallmark of FO3, going to be done.

For once, I agree with you.

I was against the removal of attributes, too, but after seeing the perk system and a bit of how the new system works, I think that the Skyrim way may be actually more complex that it was in MW or OB. It's not simplified, just different and re-arranged.

Still, I'm really curious to know how things like the Encumbrance will be managed. Or what happens with Luck (gone forever?). Or how magicka regens over time without Willpower controlling it....but I'm hopeful

I disagree the system is still similar, we just have perks not Attributes. Having less of something isn't a bad thing, Yes the game is getting more simpler but how is that a bad thing. I hated Oblivion's leveling style I mean what are the benefits of Major skills like Armorer, Block, Heavy Armor when they penalize my attributes.

I believe one of the interviews released today mentioned the speech skill is still in there. Correct me if I'm wrong.

How were attributes not rewards?? You got to increase your strength as a reward for using swords, for example. Which in turn makes your attacks with swords do more damage, and you also get to carry a bit more. This time you get a reward in the from of a perk for using your sword. You pick a perk that makes you do more damage with swords. Perhaps there will be perks related to how much you can carry. How is that any different (in terms of playing the game), except that in one system there is a menu that shows your strength, and in the other there is a menu that shows your perks. But in terms of playing the game, and to paraphrase, "not looking at a spreadsheet", what has changed?? If anything it's more realistic, because this way if you practice with using a one handed sword, you don't magically get better with claymores and axes. Because sword play is more about skill than pure strength.

Speechcraft.

You know, like in FO3.

I know its fun to say "dumbed down", but you honestly can't say that due to the new Perk System. Its factually incorrect. All of the attributes were folded into Perks and Hp/Mp/Sp. There was no loss.

If there was no Perk System and the Attributes were boiled down to the current Health/Magicka/Stamina then you'd have a point. But thats not what happened, and you have no point.


The difference is:

A more free leveling (vs Oblivions horrible leveling +attribute system, making you avoid major skills that you really wanted to level and forcing you to level other skills you dont care about for proper stat gain)

More specialization/customization (Perk trees + perk cap)

They won't have to be, if they follow Fallout 3- as there'll only be two or three max in the whole game. Maybe if they follow New Vegas...

Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing how the new "no attributes" system works.

Why?

Because playing Oblivion was always an exercise in metagaming, mostly centered around getting +4 and +5 attribute bonuses whenever you leveled (so that you didn't "fall behind" in power and end up crippled). All sorts of silly crap descended from that pursuit of stat bonuses - trying to "control" your leveling by picking Major skills you wouldn't use, standing around in your house doing "training" actions (like casting custom 1-pt spells for half an hour, or auto-running into a corner while you read a book), keeping a skill chart by your keyboard so that you could mark every skill gain as it happened (so you'd know how many skill gains were built up for each stat at all times).....


...it was annoyingly "spreadsheety" . And it really "broke immersion" :whistling: and kept you thinking about game mechanics & numbers, instead of what was actually going on on-screen.


So, yeah - while I have a few worries about no stats (how can I stack strength so that I can packrat lots of loot?!?!?!), I'm still looking forward to how it works.


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re: "spreadsheety" & RPGs



Here's the thing. Yeah, pen-and-paper RPG players frequently seem to love their number crunching. (Hey, I'm guilty of that - and I've played some of the most number-intensive pnp RPGs out there - like Rolemaster )

But the idea behind making computer versions of games (from hex-and-counter wargames, to simulations, to RPGs) was to make all those numbers transparent - you had the computer to do all the rolling, and chart checking, and cross-referencing! Progress!

So, to say that reducing the number-crunching is anti-RPG..... eh, seems wrong.

Yeah, I'm definitely curious about Encumbrance as well. Luck was always a pretty passive attribute, so it will probably have a base random chance for everyone or maybe no randomness at all. I'm also curious to see how they deal with magicka regen if it even still regens (oh god I hope it still regens, I don't like the old non regenerative magicka.)

You'll end up buying the game anyway, just like the rest of us. And it seems like rather than removing things, they are streamlining ((effectively) and making things more useful to the game, instead of just having a bunch of numbered stats that aren't applicable to much more than the number itself.

This

And you should listen to the first 2 minutes of this interview
http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/711916/elder-scrolls-5-skyrim-todd-howard-interview/

My previous post was an error look again plis.

Can someone, PLEASE link were it says Perks have anything to do with attributes. and not just skills.

That and from the article in IGN, it seems we still have individual weapon skills like one handed swords and two handed swords.