Whaa? The mod will not do anything without the INI file...I think the script breaks if the file is not found!

Oh dear..it's a txt file, though, and located in the INI/NPC FF. Is that the correct location and should the ini file be renamed from NPCFF ini.txt to NPCFF ini? Damned it's getting late and I can't read properly. What I meant is: should the ini file really be a txt file? Never seen that before...

The file extension makes no difference if the file is what it′s supposed to be. For example, you can manually rename a .txt file to .blaah and still open it with any text editor - you just may have to manually direct them to do so.

What ini files are, is text files. The .ini is just informal extension. What matters is that you when you call Obse to read the file, you provide a full file name - if the extension .blaah, you must include that extension.


In short, the extension makes no difference here - just don′t go and change it!


I gave up with the debug version - my game is somehow totally broken, it takes 10 tries to make it run once, and even then simple print commands print some numbers in the console as gibberish. So I can′t even test my own debug messages.

It makes a little difference here - the messages would have told you the same thing the console does, in addition to making it obvious the mod is running, nothing more.

Yay! With the ini file installed things worked purrfectly. :celebration:
The dogs did a bit of dancing about like a bad combat movie (like Blade) then they calmed down. And when I drew my sword they attacked me.
Still would like to find out what makes the dogs disposition to each other drop to 0, though, but that will have to wait to tomorrow. Turning off Script processing before entering the house did not help...

It's not a setting but a script function, OnDeath. You can attach a script that will have the game create a specific death-item into an inventory container. The item does not appear until the Actor has been killed.

Ah, ok. Ulrim's doesn't have any scripts, just attribute changes on horses, including adding items to their inventories.

So, Locksley, if you're looking at doing this via script, then NPC's won't be able to detect that and there should be no issues. I didn't want horse meat anyway, so I just removed it and had no more problems.

OK, did some more testing with the Hounds of Cheydinhal.
When I'm outside their house and Prid them, their Dispostion is 9 to the other dog and when I enter their Disp falls to 0 and they attack each other. If using no mods their Disposition is 10 and they don't attack each other. I haven't narrowed down which mod affects the change yet, but I did another test.
The house cell is owned by Ganredhel "Ganredhel" [NPC_:000034DB]
The dogs are both members of GanredhelFaction [FACT:00074A84] but Ganredhel herself is not a member of that faction.
So I made a little patch and assigned G to the same faction and changed the ownership of the cell from G to the faction. Now the dogs have a Disp to each other of 100 (which they should have) and don't attack each other.
So it seems the dogs both consider the other as a trespasser, but in the vanilla game their Disp don't get so low that they attack each other, but some mod affects their Disp and make them attack each other.
Does this make sense?

Makes sense to me. I had thought it was another mod causing the problems anyways. Wonder which one it is?

Sky, there was a question posed on the TESNexus thread that probably should be answered:

"Will this break the DB quest where matteiu bellamont kills the other two speakers in the crypt of the night mother? Or any other faction quest that involves treachery?"

I'd venture a guess that as long as it's done by AI packages, the quests won't be affected at all, unless there's a couple seconds of fighting ( I haven't done any of the DB quests so I don't know). But then I thought about other modded faction quests with that last question. I suppose this would affect them if AI packages aren't used?

It's interesting you ask this because we just had a long round of debugging and testing with the UOPS that had some issues with factions. The issue we were looking at was slightly different because it involved the PC, but I wonder if the script removes Mathieu from the DB faction before he starts attacking? If so, this mod should be ok. If not, then it might be a problem. I can't think of any other faction quests that involve treachery though...

@PetrusO - I figured the problem you were having was mod related as well. That's why I suggested looking at the dogs with TES4Edit. However it sounds like it might be script related. One thing you can do is to use a search in file utility to go through all your ESP's to find ModDisposition. It'd be nice if you could include the references to the dogs as well in the search, but that might require form ID's.

I've used http://www.inforapid.com to do this with good results. Mind you, I'm usually looking for a dialog string or something, but I think searching for ModDisposition would work...

I don′t even know what quest is in question, I still haven′t played the game enough I guess.


Anyways, once again this is a simple script that attempts to stop fights that shouldn′t be. And what "shouldn′t be" is based on the one simple rule: if the fighter′s are in the same faction, they shouldn′t fight.

This seems logical and something that should hold across the board, but of course nothing guarantees every quest out there obeys my rule. So no guarantess.



But what it′s worth, IMO it makes no sense if NPCs are forced to attack each other via quest without correcting their standings. If one NPC is an "impostor" and gets caught, and therefore attacked, it would be kinda strange if the same script wouldn′t first remove him from the faction - I mean, wouldn′t the worst case scenario be that some of the members of the faction attack the other members for attacking the "impostor"? A total chaos?

I haven′t fiddled with faction relations myself, but personally I would make sure no such "conflicts" would arise by any chance. :shrug:

Ok, I just pulled it up in the CS and it looks like there'd be no problem. The quest is Dark18Mother and it's called "Honor thy Mother". The script removes everybody from the DB faction, so there shouldn't be any conflicts at all. i.e. MathieuBellamontRef.SetFactionRank DarkBrotherhood -1 etc. It even adjusts the night mother's aggression! Anyway it looks tight.

Nice to see I'm not the only one who likes InfoRapid Search and Replace. And thanks for the tip, it narrowed down the list of possible culprits and the culprit is: Persuasion Overhaul! (Never trust something with the initials PO).
It changes the Game Setting fDispTargetPerMult [GMST:000287A5] from 0.5 to 0.4, so no wonder TES4EDIT couldn't find the link and no wonder TSCR in-game didn't help.
The changing of the GMST at least explains the Disp drop from 10 to 9.

Indeed Wouldn't that be a bug in that mod though? I'm surprised it would include creatures. I know the folks in Chorrol like to go on about the Bruiants talking to their dogs, but I didn't think that extended to the PC!

I think the GMST works on all actors, but I'm not sure why the mod changed the value.
Oh well, it's this kind of stuff I learn from in my Holy Quest for a conflict-free modded Oblivion experience...
But it's ironic that what prompted the Friendly Fire mod turned out not to be about friendly fire after all.

This mod is breaking the Cheydinhal "Corruption & Conscience" quest. Aldos is supposed to go up to the guard in front of his house and pick a fight with him, and then ends up getting killed. But because they're both part of the Cheydinhal faction, the fight stops and the quest gets broken.

BTW, this does more than just break the quest, it breaks the game. The fight between Aldos and the guard is a cut-scene where you lose all UI control. So if the fight stops and Aldos doesn't end up getting killed, you can't move or do anything at all. Everyone just stands around looking at each other. I guess you'll have to put in some sort of check to make sure NPCs are not supposed to be fighting each other.

(from mobile device, sorry the bland tone)Then it means my concept assumes too much from the quest makers (see my earlier post). I don't intend to add anything, this whole mod release is an alternative to copy pasting an example script to a reply (see the original thread linked on top of the first post, less than a page and exlains this comment). It does what it says it does, nothing else nothing more. :shrug:

Maybe Arthmoor can be persuaded to put a line in the relevant quest script that removes Aldos from the faction, when he updates the UOP?

Well, I am just going to add an on/off switch. Might not be so immerse but sometimes you just want to shout Pax vobiscum in the face of those NPC's

I think it is a great little script, has saved many a NPC's lives. So, yeah, maybe one does not want it running all the time just in case of funny quests...

Cheers!

At least a console command to turn it off and on would be nice.

Well if you're not going to work on it, you should at least add some warning text so some poor shmuck doesn't end up thinking his game is broken. People should at least be warned that the mod needs be disabled during that quest.

(mobile answer, sorry the wall of text) To be perfectly honest, I don't think that way. This mod doesn't promise to solve every unintended fight in the game, neither it promises to actually do much anything. It simply introduces one rule in the game. If that doesn't play nicely with everything out there, then it doesn't - if you download a mod that allows you to open any door without a key (this would be mod removing a rule), that may end up breaking a quest. Not everything has to be intended to be perfect, this is just a "do what you whish with it" type of favor-release. But we can of course get philosofic about it, for fun. As pointed out, the real question is if this conceptual rule in this mod is justified or not - if a quest doesn't obey it, shoyld the quest be patched? Or is the rule simply limiting the dynamics of the interactions, and thus any talk of pathcing a quest to obey this rule ridiculous, and thus should this whole experimental concept be buried and the mod pulled? The real irony here is, of course, that this whole concept was invented to hide/reduce problems in the game that really should be properly addressed in the first place, instead of using this mod. So if someone chooses to use this rule in his game, he's already consciously choosing to hide problems rather than find the real cause of them (this is of course perfectly understandable from a mod user). OR this mod is not about hiding problems, but patching the game by forcing a rule that should have existed in the first place. Which in turn would mean the quests would need to be patched to conform with this "patch". But really IMO there's no middle ground, it's a fundamental question not a matter of adding an 100 exceptions or notes.

As I mentioned, this mod does much more than just break a quest, it breaks the game. Since everything takes place during a cut scene, the player is stuck. They can't move or take any action whatsoever unless the fight plays out and Aldos gets killed. I'd say that warrants a warning to some unwitting player who may not be fortunate enough to figure out where the problem is as quickly as I did. Frankly I'm amazed and appalled at the callous attitude that you're displaying here. If you don't care whether or not one of your mods breaks someone's games, then I'll be sure to steer clear of any of your work. You clearly can't be trusted.

Can't you use the console to kill Aldos?

Pax vosbiscum

I doubt very much that this would work as he needs to be killed by the guard because of the fight. And it's not me I'm being concerned about here, but some newbie modder who downloads this mod thinking it was a good idea, then ends up stuck and clueless as to why. I figured it out for myself, just turn the mod off for that quest, but someone else might not be able to understand why the problem is occurring. And seeing as how easy it would be to fix the problem, simply remove Aldos or the guard from the Cheydinhal faction, I see absolutely no excuse for not being willing to do anything about it.