Its not that sensible here. You can get married at 18 (15-17 some States), but not drink alcohol till 21, and you can drive a car at 16 (potentially killing someone).

Then why does it need to be so violent?
Your character kills over a 100 people in Oblivion, that's just sick.
Isn't there enough violence in the world/other games?

What worries me the most is that people don't think you're serious when you say you're tired of all the unnecessary violence in video games.

You complain that there is already too much nudity/sixual content in our media? Exactly why is that?
The countries with the biggest porm-addiction are exactly the ones where people complain the hardest when there's some nudity in a game or a children's movie.

edit: yes, I grew up with children's movies that had nudity in them, problem?

Nudity in a TES title would be more trouble than it's worth, not because of the government, but because of society. The current U.S. supreme court is very pro-free speech, and would probably back Bethesda should it ever have to. The things they have to worry about however are the reactions from the 'mainstream' (read: biased and sensational) media, and the crusade that would be fought between far right and far left wing people over it. The ESRB is actually pretty fair, I don't recall that many games that got an M rating that I felt shouldn't have, or AO games that should've been an M. As long as gamesas doesn't make straight-up porm, they'll probably continue getting M's for TES titles.

That still won't stop the loud minority of people who would be pissed off at this though. And seeing as how Skyrim will be a sandbox, where you're told from the start "do whatever you want," this would be a bad place to make a stand against those ignorant and insecure enough to declare war on video-games.

Exactly.

I'd also like to add that not everyone here has the luxury of playing in a private room or alone. And that maybe people don't want nudity perhaps? And if there is, it should not be reserved for the pretty people, but also for the ugly, grotesque, and undead, otherwise it's not "realistic" or "immurshun"

Undead are already naked in TES aren't they?

M is 17+ and A is advlt only (technically advlts are 18+). advlts/mature is really context sensitive here. 18 is old enough for most things except renting cars and drinking alcohol. Some would call it advlt, some wouldn't. I say around 15-16, depending on the individual, you're not fully matured, but you're old enough to make most decisions for yourself and you're old enough for nudity.

As people have said, they'll never take AO on Skyrim, because it will really hurt sales.

I don't know why people consider that, when you remove somebody's armor/clothes they should be fully naked without underwear, more "immersive" when (to me) it's quite opposite. People tend to wear undergarments under their clothes, without them it would be... uncomfortable, especially armor.
And why would you remove their underwear unless you want to do something... weird.

Zombie balls is what I'm referring to.

#1 Why do people keep asking about nuditity in videogames. My only conclusion is that there are some very sick, disturbed people on this board. I have no problem with people wanting to see real nudity, that's part of being human. But desire for fake animated nudity to the extent that it is brought up as a serious discussion repeatedly honestly takes a special type of sicko.

#2 Yes, six is more offensive than typical violence in media. Battlefield violence in particular. There are certainly types of violent, heinous acts more offensive than partial nudity, but if this type of violence is in Skyrim, you'll be hearing about it on the news.

I guess the immersion breaker is when everyone is wearing the same thing and it CAN'T come off. Plus, I would wear clothes under armor, not just a loincloth. So two immersion breakers in Oblivion.

What has America done to you? six is more offensive than violence?? I guess it depends on each act. Obviously [censored] is more offensive than consenting fighters wounding each other. I think consent (lack of) makes either act offensive.

Edit: Whoops. My bad on the double.

Americans are funny...

Age 16 - I bought a car, let′s find a girl/boy.

Age 16 - I find a girl/boy! Let′s get marrried! (some states)

Age 17 - "What do you want, girl/boy? Now i have age to play Skyrim, don't bother me, piss off someone else!"

Age 18- I can smoke (Maybe?) Let's take a break from Skyrim...

Age 21 - UAU!!! I finally finish Skyrim.... Just in time, I going to buy a beer to celebrate... Wait... girl/boy? Where are you?

I wouldn't mind some nudity in the game because it adds a bit of realism, like its an actualy world. I don't want TES to become porm either.

And why is nudity and violence considered so terrible in games. Blame prudes. Every year California tries desperate measures to blacklist mature games from minors, which is against the constitution.
But minor nudity can be done and still get away with it. Left 4 Dead had zombie [censored] and I doubt there is anything regarding nudity on the box.
Nudity is part of video games growing up, turning into a form of media that everyone accepts. Movies had the same issue many years ago, but now no one cares, just rate it higher.
Same should be for games. It will happen eventually. For instance, some parents get upset if video games show too much cleavage, but no one gets mad about showing Romeo and Juliet in high school, considering it shows a brief glimpse of nudity.

But I honestly don't care that much. It won't make a big difference in my game, it probably wouldn't make any.

But GTA: SA don't have a "A" rating? And he was a blockbuster... Like i said, Americans are really a funny people... :tops:

Not sure. Wasn't SA pulled from a lot of shelves? I don't remember if it was AO or M.

Edit: Oh, lol. It was both. First M, then AO, then back to M. At least, according to Wikipedia.

lol basically. I was watching a comedy salute to the troops last night and one of the comedians sang a song like that. About how people can smoke and go fight for their country but can't drink and stuff like that. Frankly if they dropped the drinking age to 18 there might even be less 18 year olds drinking because after you are legal it isn't as much fun anymore. But who knows, there is still a lot of scummy people out there to ruin things for everyone (almost 21 and haven't touched the stuff personally).

Back to the topic at hand it depends on the content. Leisure Suit Larry will always gain an AO rating as will anything with explicit sixual content. I personally don't care one way or another, but will most likely get a mod sometime down the line. I just love how our censorship system works. You can show any part on a females chest except a nipble, as soon as you see something you can see anywhere else on a man its offensive. Women find pecs attractive, why not censor MMA events and the like?

Also, you can see women in thong bikinis and Chris "Party Boy" Pontius grinding on people in nothing but a zebra print banana hammock in public and that is totally fine? Makes no sense...

Red Dead Redemption has a six scene yet still rated M.

Yeah, there's alot of oddness in the whole thing, due to various US attitudes towards nudity/six.

1) Main differences would be a) A would most likely be explicit nudity or six; and b.) would never be stocked by any retail store (hence, no non-porm company will ever put out an A rated game.)

2) Typically, you can do alot of things at 18 (vote, join military and actually kill people, buy porm, get arrested for having six with a 17 year old because they're still a "kid".....) But movie and game ratings use 17 as the cutoff for some reason. And, again, no company will put out an A game, since it'd never be stocked or advertised, so the ages really don't matter.

3) Cannibalism was in Fallout 3, which was just M. But that second thing..... that gets threads asking for it locked. And most games either make it impossible (kids are invulnerable and don't get into combat) or just have no kids at all (Oblivion, for example) to avoid this. There would be massive outcry (and probably A rating) if that was possible. (edit: hmm, now that I think about it.... that Dead Island trailer was pretty brutal to the kid. Wonder how that'll go.)




US ratings aren't divided up as much. Non-kiddie games have basically only two ratings, T and M. (since A, like the NC-17 movie rating, doesn't really exist since all it means is "no one will stock your game/movie") Having only two usable ratings means you can't really get that fine a grading like you can with 12/16/18.....

LLOOLL... so ESRB in reality do not know what they are doing? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

How does that apply, exactly?

If children seeing the content of what you're playing is your concern, I'm somewhat confused as to why violence would still be acceptable.
If advlts seeing the content of what you're playing is your concern, I fear for your well-being. If they allow you to buy any game you'd like, you should certainly not have any trouble playing any game you'd like. If not, then maybe Skyrim isn't for you.

I don't mind it but... is it *necessary* in the game?

I mean, you can just fire up your PC and google some nudity if you need to see boobs that badly...

The same could be said for nearly every other visual feature in-game. Why bother adding realistic snow when you could just hop in a plane to Alaska? Or at least satisfy your urge for experiencing such an emotional delight by firing up your PC and Binging (MS<3) "realistic snow"?

Thanks for the answers. I think i understand. BTW, i only asking about cannibalism and the other thing because are other topics talking about this subjects. I'm against both in Skyrim, and in real life too.

Gothic 2 does as well, it has a brothel in the first town, same as FO3, but where FO3's Nova leans against the wall indifferent, Gothic 2's NPC dances around the room calling the PC inside the establishment ; and where FO3 fades to black ~Gothic 2 plays a CGI Bink video. (Gothic 2 is equally rated M)

I was honestly surprised when I played the game.

**IIRC she is an unkillable NPC.

Yes I am sure Portugal has no quirks or idiosyncrasies in its culture or laws. All the under 18 things mentioned are with parent consent by the way. What is referred to as age of consent(age capable of legally making decision to have six) varies in every state. Some states go down to 14, or 14 with a provision that the other party can't be a person in a position of authority etc. It varies by state because our system of government was founded under the concept of a certain type of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalism_in_the_United_States To sum up initially this meant the federal government only covered international issues and issues(trade mainly) between the states. While what trade between the states encompasses has grown to anything that is related or effects trade between states which means almost everything it still does not effect quite a few basic laws. So states pass their own laws on murder, six, drinking age etc. since that has nothing to do with interstate commerce.(if you cross state lines during some of these acts it becomes a federal issue as well) It gets a lot more complex than that with the federal & state government trying to constantly grow in power but that is it at its basic level.

Getting on topic: I honestly think nudity adds nothing to a elder scrolls game. Yeah it might add a very tiny amount of immersion, but I'm not exactly stripping every female who dies, so it really has very little effect on me. If it is there fine, it does not hurt my game in any way either.

My theory on why violence is more accepted in media in America over six, fears of parents.

People might worry about their kid getting pregnant, or getting someone pregnant before they are ready. They don't really worry about their kid going on a killing spree. Violence generally feels more like a fantasy than six. It is like you don't worry when you are getting in your car, but you might feel a seed of worry when walking down a dark alley in an unfamiliar part of town. Some things worry you others don't. The odds of something happening are remote enough you just aren't worried no matter how bad the event might be. I am never worried about earthquakes even though as is currently obvious they do happen, and I live in San Francisco a heavy earthquake zone. There have been a rash of burglaries in my neighborhood, so I have had a moment of worry about that. Someone stealing my crap is a lot better than a massive earthquake, yet I am more worried about the crime than the quake. That is because there is a reasonable chance I can get burglarized, a massive earthquake while they happen are much rarer. I figure it is the same thing with parents. The odds of their 14 year old going on a killing spree are so remote they don't worry about it and whatever influence a movie might have on them in that regard. The odds of their daughter getting pregnant, or getting a sixually transmitted disease are a lot higher than parents are happy with, so sixual content influencing their child is a larger worry. Is this perfectly rational, maybe maybe not, but fears don't have to be rational.