Number 1 Concern I'm Seeing: Bullets to Kill

Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:18 pm

You know, it gets really annoying when people say no to ideas just because "that's not what this game is about" even though said idea could potentially improve the game.


Would I use this mode? Christ no, stupidly fast kill times which promote camping are the reason I haven't bought any recent "realistic" military shooter, I actually think the guns showed at the PAX videos killed too quickly, and I'm going to tell anyone who says a "hardcoe" (terrible name for this mode by the way) is better than the default version to [censored] off. But for the people who do want to play the game differently from it's default mode, who the hell are we to deny them what they want? It's more money for Splash Damage, and I kind of want to see DLC and Brink 2.

I fee you bro. God forbid you suggest something that's not in the game. No studio/developer is perfect; just because Splash Damage does it a certain way, doesn't mean it's the best way for everyone.
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Destinyscharm
 
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Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:32 pm

It doesn't look like one of those 100 bullets to kill games to me. Watching the PAX defusal walkthrough. Seems to be only against mediums.
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Darian Ennels
 
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Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:32 pm

No. Iyo, the biggest concern we should be looking at is bullets to kill. Since I have watched the videos, I must say I firmly disagree. The amount of bullets it takes to skill somebody seems completely reasonable to me, and with over six months of polishes and bug fixing, I think we really don't need to be worried about Splash Damage leaving problems. Imo, the biggest concern about Brink is really will it work, will it stick out from other games, will it attract the right crowd, and will it provide a fun experience for the players.
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Scarlet Devil
 
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Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:52 pm

I see no problem, they got it right with Wolfenstein:Enemy Territory and Enemy Territory:Quake Wars, no reason they won't again, they know how to do shooters, it's all they do
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Sara Lee
 
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Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:54 pm

  • simply getting off the first shot doesn't determine the winner.
  • firefights rely more on the skills of person vs person, rather than "who shot first." - in other words, it takes far greater skill to "duke it out" with an opponent and come out the victor, than it does simply putting 2-3 (or less) shots in him, usually from a camping spot or long distance.


+1

Also 3. You can run around a corner, bump into an enemy who is already starting to shoot you and can live/escape/fight back.
:biggrin:
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gemma king
 
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Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:36 pm

Pretty much everything has been said. It's funny how people from the SD fanbase always have to "defend" their beliefs against people from other shooters. Is it wrong for us to want an SD game that looks, feels and plays like an SD game? SD seems to be sticking to their roots like they say, but every week there's someone who complains about it.

Yes, you probably will waste an entire clip or more if you try to shoot like in COD. Aim for the head, learn aiming over time instead of relying on reflexes. This is harder to do than the COD and Battlefield things, obviously. Is there anything wrong with having an easy game to play, but harder to master?
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Deon Knight
 
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Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:36 am

more bullets to kill = more experience, so why would i want less? who wants to be stuck at level one 5 times longer so they could snipe with their sidearm.

the ps3 video's showed players get exp for hits NOT kills. far better than some systems i've seen (killing floor an annoying example) so SD continues rewarding teamplay allowing two or more people to kill the same person and not rob each other of exp based on which bullet killed the enemy. i'm looking forward to lights forming attack squads and descending on heavy units using speed and agility to overwhelm the big lumbering damage sponge. that stuff wont happen if we can just shoot them in the head 3 times from the other room with a pistol
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Rob Davidson
 
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Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:54 pm

more bullets to kill = more experience, so why would i want less? who wants to be stuck at level one 5 times longer so they could snipe with their sidearm.

the ps3 video's showed players get exp for hits NOT kills. far better than some systems i've seen


Since Main exp gain is from objectives your point/reasoning is pretty much Invalid

? you get exp for both (Don't you?), the hits and the kill.
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Georgine Lee
 
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Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:51 pm

I personally favor the current system, I like games where it takes almost your entire clip if not the entire clip to kill. Makes it so you don't just spray and pray and it's all about who see's you first, actually have to aim and use tactics to make sure you hit them and they hit you less.
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Jesus Lopez
 
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Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:20 am

Since Main exp gain is from objectives your point/reasoning is pretty much Invalid

? you get exp for both (Don't you?), the hits and the kill.

one leads to the other, so yes? i wasn't paying that much attention to those vids. and yes 100x as much exp for objectives than plinking away at health...but i'll need to do both anyway. you could probably kill a few people on the way for just as much exp as one objective (5exp per hit on a semi auto weapon that takes 10 hits to kill. so 50EXP per kill while you run to the next objective could average 5 kills one could assume. so 250 exp for getting to your objective and i'm no eagle eye but most objectives seem to hover around 200-500 in the vids.

so yeah killing stuff for new t-shirts seems in-line for societies opinion of us.
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Chloe Lou
 
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Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:46 pm

More hitpoints means the truly better player is much more likely to come out on top. This also puts a stop to spray and prayers success, so look out.
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StunnaLiike FiiFii
 
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Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:44 pm

Ok how many bullets is reasonable to kill someone?

As many it takes to screw a lightbulb :laugh:

Oh but who needs to shoot anymore when randomly throwing a knife or an axe and having it touch ANY PART OF YOUR BODY will instantly kill you. In the head, dead. In the arm, dead. On your pinky toe, you bet you ass you won't survive without that toe.
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Kieren Thomson
 
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Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:12 am

Brink won't really take that many more bullets to down people than other shooters, mainly because of not that long range and pretty accurate weapons that fire where you aim em.
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kitten maciver
 
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Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:53 am

You know, it gets really annoying when people say no to ideas just because "that's not what this game is about" even though said idea could potentially improve the game.


Would I use this mode? Christ no, stupidly fast kill times which promote camping are the reason I haven't bought any recent "realistic" military shooter, I actually think the guns showed at the PAX videos killed too quickly, and I'm going to tell anyone who says a "hardcoe" (terrible name for this mode by the way) is better than the default version to [censored] off. But for the people who do want to play the game differently from it's default mode, who the hell are we to deny them what they want? It's more money for Splash Damage, and I kind of want to see DLC and Brink 2.

Its not about just saying no to anything I dislike, SD had a set of goals when they started making the game. They didn't want artificial constraints on movement; they wanted there to be teamwork; they wanted to bribe players into making the game fun for others; they wanted even a bad player to be able to feel like part of a good team; they wanted the game to be fast paced; they wanted objectives to be the focus rather than killing; they wanted you to be able to shoot at any moment with no canned animations; they wanted to have immersive multiplayer; they wanted voice acting, models, and animations to be done right; and I'm sure that's not all of their goals.

Point is, when someone suggests an idea that comes in conflict with one of their goals for their game, I wouldn't expect them to use the idea, and I wouldn't want them to, even if I liked the idea on its own. When developers start compromising their game to try and make everyone happy, the end product tends to become indistinct. In politics, if you try to make everyone happy, you end up just alienating everyone. Same thing happens with video games.

If I was totally against one of their goals for the game, I would still prefer they create the game that they had envisioned from the start.
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Monika Krzyzak
 
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Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:18 pm

It just means that aiming is more important. I know most people from CoD hate this, but some enjoy it. I really don't think this mode should be included. It would be a waste of time to put it in.
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Red Bevinz
 
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Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:31 pm

Well, anything less than half a clip :glare:

It seems to take about 10 hits from an Assault Rifle to kill a medium bodytype character.
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john palmer
 
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Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:31 pm

You know, it gets really annoying when people say no to ideas just because "that's not what this game is about" even though said idea could potentially improve the game.


Would I use this mode? Christ no, stupidly fast kill times which promote camping are the reason I haven't bought any recent "realistic" military shooter, I actually think the guns showed at the PAX videos killed too quickly, and I'm going to tell anyone who says a "hardcoe" (terrible name for this mode by the way) is better than the default version to [censored] off. But for the people who do want to play the game differently from it's default mode, who the hell are we to deny them what they want? It's more money for Splash Damage, and I kind of want to see DLC and Brink 2.


See here, it's not going to be included plain and simple. It would be ridiculous for the devs to go out of their way to create the same exact game, except with more bullet damage. It's been balanced in previous Splash Damage games, and why are they going to deviate from a plan that has worked before? Like Shadowcat said, they have a set list of goals, and for us to go demanding things that would hinder getting to those goals is just unneeded.
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Baby K(:
 
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Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:56 pm

Thing is we havent seen the release version, so none of us can really commment. The version i played must have been the same as Rev's ten on target rounds to the centre mass (chest), given that i think 2-3 headshots should be fine on a medium.
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Andrew Perry
 
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Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:02 pm

My number one concern I'm seeing is the people who all want more of the same.
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Isabel Ruiz
 
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Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:31 pm

Cos teh CODS is teh besterest game evor!!!!1!!!!
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Bethany Short
 
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Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:00 pm

Played deathmatch on mw2 launched some grenades. Ran in some circles. Stabbed some guys. Did basically everything you can do in that game. No more CoD ever again for me.
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Marine x
 
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Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:30 pm

Cos teh CODS is teh besterest game evor!!!!1!!!!

so true

Infact, I think Brink should have killstreaks too. Like when you get a 3 kill streak you can fly a plane with 6 ounces of anti-matter locked in a compressed container!
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Euan
 
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Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:58 pm

so true

Infact, I think Brink should have killstreaks too. Like when you get a 3 kill streak you can fly a plane with 6 ounces of anti-matter locked in a compressed container!

Would need to be a vacuum container holding the antimatter in a magnetic field, or else your plane wouldn't make it anywhere before turning into a mega-nuke that makes Hiroshima seem like a firecracker...just saying
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Charles Weber
 
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Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:24 pm

Would need to be a vacuum container holding the antimatter in a magnetic field, or else your plane wouldn't make it anywhere before turning into a mega-nuke that makes Hiroshima seem like a firecracker...just saying

Oh...... damn you The Universe.
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Kelly John
 
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Post » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:46 pm

You seem to have it backwards, and here is why.

When players require more bullets to take down, (like in Brink)

  • simply getting off the first shot doesn't determine the winner.
  • firefights rely more on the skills of person vs person, rather than "who shot first." - in other words, it takes far greater skill to "duke it out" with an opponent and come out the victor, than it does simply putting 2-3 (or less) shots in him, usually from a camping spot or long distance.


The fact that you only have to it the target 1 or 2 times, means accuracy is less important - its common sense. Players don't bother aiming for headshots in these games, because they are dead in so few shots anyway, just making contact is sufficient. Yet with the shooting mechanics in Brink, not only is accuracy and shooting skill much more important, since aiming for the head or body can spell the difference between winning and loosing, but simply getting the first shot off, doesn't guarantee you victory. The longer it takes to kill someone, the more important movement and aiming become. When kills take very little time, the balance shifts towards positioning and being the first to shoot - This is also common sense.

In games that require few shots to kill, there are 2 ways to improve your chances of winning. First, you can practice hard and learn to move fast and when to move. You can improve your aim and reactions so that you can aim onto anyone you see. OR you can find a position that is hard to spot (with decent cover) and stay there, aiming at the entrances or exits to your location so that you see them first every time and don't have to aim, as you are already focused on the narrow door they will be coming through...
Obviously, most players choose the second option, since it is easier and takes less effort and concentration.

The main point is that games that require a small amount of shots to kill, promote camping and cater to casual gamers. This is a reason why COD MP is so hugely popular - because you don't have to be that good of a player to be good at it.

Is COD popular? Yes
Can you be good at it? Yes
Can it be played competitively? Yes
Does that make it a good game? No
Does that mean that COD's damage scales are the best? No

Chances are, all thees people who are complaining about it, are just upset because they have to work for their kills now.


Also, this can be interpreted in different ways. When Richard Ham said it takes about "half a clip to take an enemy," He could have meant that it actually takes half a clip's worth of bullets to kill someone, or he could have accounted for people not hitting every shot, and/or not going for headshots, and stating that the average person will take half a clip to kill someone. There also isn't any clarification on what size clip he is referring to.

^^
The Truth
When Richard Ham said that, he said "while dodging", which probably means it takes around 7-8 shots. Look at some gameplay videos.
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Harry Hearing
 
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