Which is the price of a 4gb 360 at Walmart lol. If we are talking a 250 gb or whatever they run a lot more expensive so yeah that GFX card is cheaper.

Well with PC we can:
- play much better than with consoles (more input peripherals, mods, better graphics)
- WORK. Many of us are more than thirteen years old, and taking Engineering or Scientific courses without a powerful PC is hell.
- do any other thing we want without jailbreaking anything.

So yes, much better buying a moderately expensive PC than a always-expensive-because-futile console.

The 470 will play everything on max at 1920x1200 with decent AA - the 460 ($150) will play almost everything on max at 1920x1200 with 4 or 8xAA, with a few exceptions (Such as Metro 2033), and the 450 ($120) will play almost everything on max at 1680x1050 with 4xAA. For comparison, the 360 can play the majority of games at 1280x720 at medium/low settings with 4xAA at half the framerate, and the PS3 can play the majority of games at 1280x720 at medium/low with no AA at half the framerate.

The thing about PC gaming is freedom - one of those is the freedom to spend more money and get better performance, even when for most games you don't need it.

I do not know whether to be offended by this or if I start to laugh out loud...

1. Like i said, i didn't mention consoles because this is not the subject in OP, he likes to know the best graphics cards for a PC

2. DirectX is for PC's, not consoles, you know that, right?

3. Graphics cards and games (DiRT 2, for example) with support DirectX 11 is came out in early 2010, you know that too, so you believe that Skyrim like a top-graphics-game he will be, will not support DirectX 11 in PC in november 2011? (Even if not necessary to play the game). Think again.

4. No, it's not necessary to have 2 GPU in PC to play the game... However, like i suggested to OP, is better buy a good motherboard and PSU who will support propper Crossfire /SLI, if he want to upgrade the computer later on without having to switch more components.

5. Best graphics cards cames with native HDMI, and is better this way, no need for adaptors if the monitor has HDMI entry too, just one cable will do the job and no loss of quality signal. Trust me, is better !!!

6. If you want to play Skyrim in a console, be my guest. However, you want to limit players who have a PC, and suggest NOT BUY A GOOD GPU because the consoles has only 512 Ram? You are really serious about that? So you believe that the game will have the same graphics in PC and consoles then too, right? LOL...

Your post quite specifically said your card must have those attributes to run the game acceptably. This is a false statement. Bethesda have stated that the game will feature no significant graphical enhancement over either console, save for larger textures - however even for larger textures, 1GB VRAM is a "maybe" for max quality, certainly not something you need to run games at all.
The 360, actually, uses something similar to DX9 - and even if it didn't, it would make no difference. As bethesda have stated, no DX11.
The ability to upgrade later has nothing to do with your ability to play games now, you certainly do not *require* that to play games.
A HDMI cable will not produce a better image than a DVI cable. They're both digital cables, they don't do quality loss. That's sort of the point. You will get *exactly* the same image through either, and an almost indistinguishable image from a VGA cable.
And, finally, I am not disputing that a good GPU will be useful, I am saying your minimum requirements are based on no foreknowledge and are overkill for most games, never mind one that is clearly being developed primarily for consoles.

As impressive as your mastery of BBCode is, I'm afraid the words it is styling are based on nothingness.

No direct X 11 for Skyrim? Links, please. Thanks.

Besides the fact that it WAS said somewhere (not sure where I can look, think it was in the GI hub tho), if it can be played on a 360 than it is playable on PC without anything more than what the 360 has. So if 360 has dx9 then you only need dx9 on PC

A PC has an operating system, that adds a significant overhead on cpu and ram usage.

Everyone with Windows 7 has DirectX 11, because it automatically installs. So technically, Skyrim for PC uses DirectX 11.

The Xbox has an OS as well. It is just limited to 32MB of system RAM IIRC.

Vista has DX11 support as well, however three things need to be covered in order to have the game run DX11

1) Vista or Windows 7
2) A DX11 capable GPU (Any ATI 5xxx or higher or any Nvidia 4xx or higher)
3) The game needs to be made to output the benefits of DX11.

For OS I've intended a general purpose OS, not a dedicated one. Of course XBOX has an OS!

That has nothing to do with what version of directx is neccesary, nor does your OS put any additional strain on your GPU. CPU and RAM, yes, but even office-class machines come with stronger CPUs and more RAM these days.

This topic is about AMD or Nvidia. Is not about PC or consoles, and i give my opinion about that for OP. Like i said before, i believe the best buy (quality/price) NOW will be a GPU with directX 11 support, 1 GB (at least 725Mhz GPU clock) and GDDR5, regardless being AMD or Nvidia.

@PhYoshi: You said that everything i say no make sense. I resentful with that (and i laughed too, i admit), because i just want to help OP to buy the best GPU (quality/price) to play Skyrim with good graphics... And you talk about consoles in first place and seems to me (i'm wrong?) you want to limit players who have a PC not buy a good GPU in 2011 because the consoles (technology from 2007 ?) has only 512 Ram and something similar to directX 9.

I want to stay in topic but i like also to know when and where BGS and BS said there is no directX 11 support for Skyrim. Thanks.

They didn't mention DX11 yet at all.
"We tend to do as much as we can" is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Sw_1P2dvWU, which includes High Res Textures. That aside, we don't know what features we will have, and they probably don't know yet either because they do these things at the end of development.

They stated in one of the game informer articles, I believe, that all versions would look about the same - when prompted via twitter they revealed the PC would have extra features like higher resolutions and textures. If DX11 were a thing, they'd have said by now.

There's also a fundamental difference between advising somebody to buy a good GPU, and telling them that they absolutely require one. One of them is helpful, the other is at worst lying, and at best misleading. We don't know the specifications yet, and while yes, a top end GPU would be nice to have, if you're buying a PC on a budget it's nice to know that you don't have to buy a top end GPU.

I certainly don't want to limit anybody to console levels - however people should be aware that "maxxing out" and "playing very well" are two seperate things. I do not mean to say that what you are saying is wrong, simply that without any knowledge of skyrim's requirements your statements are nonsensical and fly in the face of all evidence, which is that skyrim will be a console port with few graphically demanding features, as well as other games, where even newly released titles do not need top end cards to run acceptably.

Im getting a new computer. My first real gaming machine. Im probably overspending but im pretty sure ill be able to tun the game maxed out by the time the game releases. Im one of those people that wants to play a game on full not low/medium. I will be well prepared for the system specs when its out.

Processor ( Intel? Core? i7 970 Processor (6x 3.20GHz/12MB L3 Cache) )
Memory ( 6 GB [2 GB X3] DDR3-1600 - Corsair XMS3 Dominator w/DHX technology ) (Will have 12+ gigs of ram by the time game comes out)
Video Card ( NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 Ti - 1GB - EVGA Superclocked - Core: 900MHz - Single Card ) (may upgrade to a 580+ card when the game comes out)
Motherboard ( [SLI] Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD5 w/ 2x Gb LAN, 4x PCI-E 2.0 x16 )
Operating System ( Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit )
30% overclock
alot of other addons and such on computer to raise price up.
$2,188.75

Considering im upgrading from a Gateway
first gen dule core 2.8ghz
32 bit xp media center
2 gigs of ram
galaxy geforce gts 250 1 gig
$800 when new without card.

I don't enjoy console RPG games as they are very differnt when compared to a PC version.

@ PhYoshi:

So, you don't know if Skyrim will have support DirectX 11 in PC or not? You wrote before: ?As bethesda have stated, no DX11.? I'm confuse... :huh:

You buy a good GPU with directX 11 support, 1 GB (at least 725Mhz GPU clock) and GDDR5 now with around 180 €. This is a very good (quality/price), but not a "top end GPU" in this days, there are in the market more (much more) expensive GPU's.

Like wolfpup said: ?Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it?, so about directX 11 suport and buy NOW a good GPU prepared to the future i close my case, but also i recommend (in other post) to OP to wait and see. (BTW, you read my other posts?)

And like i said also, if you want play Skyrim in consoles, be my guess. I have a PS3 and a PC with AMD HD 5850 Black Ed. I have no doubt where he'll play Skyrim, even if i don't know the specifications yet. End of discussion about PC's vs. Consoles. I love my PS3 but i am sick of these useless discussions about diferent technologies.

Oh, I'm a PC player through and through, I see no reason for that to change. The only thing I'm taking issue with is that you said what you posted were absolute essentials - which is untrue. Indeed, HDMI is a complete fringe element that makes no difference to whether your card can render the game - just what ports it outputs it out of.

As for the DX11 thing, their repeated lack of statement saying otherwise is all the proof I need, on top of the long development cycle actually starting *before* DX11 became available. It seems likely to me that if skyrim supported DX11, they'd probably have mentioned that by now, especially when answering questions on PC graphics.

And I still feel the Console|PC comparison is a valid one - the game will be able to look like a console copy on a PC, so it makes sense that you'll require slightly above console level hardware (To mitigate the lack of hardware-specific optimisation and OS overhead) to run it like that.

Because they can? And people do indeed pay for it. I would not. I'm quite happy OCing my locked multi, mid range, cheaper CPUs to perform not too far under one of the X series. (And more than my current needs.) The X series is for the complete enthusiast. You know, the ones who like to use liquid nitrogen rather than air or water cooling cooling just to see how far they can push things before they go out in a blaze of glory. (Yes, I'm deliberately going to the farthest extreme for this example.)

An unlocked multi does allow for a wider range of options, say should a board hit a wall with the FSB (All mobo's can be different.) they can raise the multi instead. It's the "e-pee pee" thing. You pay through the nose for that crap, like anything "enthusiast, elite or high end".

@ PhYoshi:

This is my opinion to OP... Since he was asking about GPU's, I gave my honest opinion based on prices and features of the existing graphic boards today for PC and with the help of all i read and see about Skyrim, to run the game with very good graphics in PC without spending much money, and this way also buy a GPU to the future.

Do you want to edit my post too? You call me a liar in your posts three times indirectly, are you harassing me because...?

First you wrote that BS say that the game will not support directX 11, and this is not anywhere. Then you say we don't know the specifications yet and now you said their (=BS) repeated lack of statement saying otherwise (about the suport of DirectX 11) is all the proof you need. I'm sorry, but it's hard exchange views with someone who changes his mind this way.
So, please, if you want to be helpful to the OP, give your advice about the best graphics card that he should buy (quality/price) and stop harassing me. I really don't have time to this.

I'm confused about PSUs, the web says the 560ti requires 500W PSU, and i saw HD 5870(about the same requirement ) runs perfectly on a 425W PSU(Dell Studio 8300 series), how does the power consumption work? I'm really newb about hardware. If i'm using a single card and no plan to upgrade later, i thought a 525W is enough for 560ti?

I'm sorry if you feel not agreeing with strong statements based upon no foundation is "harassment" - I was unaware that replying to people talking directly to me was somehow a bad thing. Bethesda have all but said "DX11 is not supported" with statements such as "The PC version will not look significantly different", and by answering questions such as "What graphical enhancements will the PC version feature" with textures and resolution *only*. Are we to also assume the game will fly us to the moon because they have not specifically refuted it?

Indeed, the point I have made several times is that I cannot make a specific recommendation on a card to buy because [b]we do not know what the system requirements are[b]. If I made a solid recommendation I would be a liar, I can only go on the facts in front of me - that the lead platform is (As directly stated by bethesda) the 360, that the PC will feature no great graphical enhancements, and that other console ports require relatively little hardware. However, to list things that you must have to support skyrim? Well, not actually being bethesda, I simply cannot know - and neither can you. By saying nothing, I am more useful than spreading misinformation.

If you have no plans to upgrade later... Well, maybe a 525W will do the job, i honest don't think so, but rebember that PSU gives power to all the components in your PC, not just GPU, so If you buy a new PC with 560ti (this GPU is a cannon,lol) is better not to put in risk all your system because the PSU will be in the limit (I hope you understand what i try to say)...

Translation: The PSU is not a place to skimp! Always better to have more than needed than not enough.

Having said that I'm of the opinion a 500Wer would suffice for your listed system at stock. Just make sure it's from a reputable maker!!! Very important! Seasonic, Channel Well, PC Power and cooling to name a few. They make PSUs for other companies to. (My Corsair HX850 is made by Channel Well for example.) Use the following link to see what is made by who.

http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/PSU_Manufacturers

Really now? Because AMD sells unlocked CPUs for about.... $30 more than locked ones. I think this is a case of Intel price gouging its customers and them being sheep and going BAA BAA and buying them.

Regarding PSUs: Pay a bit of extra money and just get an 850W or something. Don't skimp on the PSU, better to overestimate.