I agree completely. Thats what I'm trying to say for Helseth. I know his father wasn't emperor but he was loyal to the Empire until his death. Why wouldn't Helseth have unwaivering allegience to the Empire as well? His pro-empire mentallity is probably the reason he is even being discussed as a possible condidate for the throne.


How can you say "everything will stop him"? What specifically is going to stop him?

I wouldn't be surprised at all if H doesn't claim the throne, but I just want to know why people think he has no chance at all.

Yesssss, war with Morrowind!!!
The Nords vs. The Dunmer
This is gonna be good..... I'm starting an RP on this.

I have nothing to say as far as an alliance goes, but there is no stranglehold on the throne because there is no throne. There was an obvious reason the fall of the Septims ushers in a new era, to start all over:facepalm:
Whoever wishes to be the Emperor now is going to have alot more to do than sieze a throne, we are talking politicing, alot of luck, and mantling a god to solidify it all. These are things any good, obscure cultist can do mind you, I am well aware of this. Personally, I hope to see them tare eachother apart fighting proxy wars.

The people I would want to keep my eye on are Duke Vedam Dren of Ebonheart and Count Andel Indarys of Cheydinhal. As acting head of house Hlaalu, (a house to which both Helseth and Count Indarys belong) Dren is in a pivotal position where any attempt to muster arms on a large scale would likely need his approval. Helseth has abolished slave trade, and already has all too recently had to contend with house Indoril and house Redoran. Although he was successful enough to oust slavery and maintain the upper hand, he would likely receive little help from those 2 houses in such a campaign and need to rely heavily on his own house Hlaalu, and his new ally Dres in order to gather the forces needed. Aside from Dren's affiliation as head of the king's Great House, he controls the vital ebony routes and his cooperation could mean a well supplied army and the denial of those resources to other imperial provinces.

Where do Andel Indarys' loyalties truely lie? If to House and King he provides easy access, and a forward base of operations to an attack, if needed his own county of Cheydinhal, serving as a gateway for Morrowind into the rest of the imperial home provinces. With the waning of the Line of Emperors and the Tribunal Temple's power, a new dawn has come. The 'treaty' that Vivec acquired in his resistance against Empire is no longer needed as the empire's hand is too shaken to truely hold that which it lays claim to, and the fairly autonomous nature of Morrowind's rule may have provided the means to finally strike back, or lay claim politically. You would be fooling yourself if even in the face of such utter destruction (to his own lands as well as those of the empire) you did not believe Helseth would not seek this opportunity, especially if such key players as Duke Dren and Count Indarys were to aid him.

I don't think Ocato would voluntarily give up the council's new found power, but in the face of such a claim, backed by military and economic force, one could certainly come to the conclusion that Helseth may be a pretender for the Imperial Crown.

That's what I think anyways.

Fine points Paradox - I had ignored Dren especially - but those two are both Hlaalu - so infighting if they see the possibilities, but would they split their House?

Dren especially proved a solid Imperial Ally. But there is no more Emperor so I suspect if Ocato is not looking for or to be an Altmer Emperor and supported Helseth ...

Barenziah has another child - she is not Queen of Summerset Isle ... One family with 3 key Provinces.

It might spell an end to human hegemony and a new dawn for mer-kind.

since the Dragon Break it seems that it may have been that daughter of Barenziah who offered her firstborn to the Wormking ... so that's an interesting addition to the mix.

The daughter seems content with Summerset - so that would still leave Helseth in the driving seat provided Altmer King is agreeable.

Assumin that's the way of things then what remains is Hammerfell (in a few thousand years they may unify?); Elsweyr ... have never shown Imperial ambition; The unknown at the heart of the Black Marshes; the Nords who keep invading everyone and therefore would be resisted from several directions; the Orcs who do not appear to be ready for Imperial ambition though they enjoy the odd rampage; and Valenwood - it may be that they would not need to mantle a god if the Precursor is correct about the return of Yffre. But i suspect that if Valenwood changes course it would be to withdraw from any Imperial involvement.

The Earls, Counts and relatives of the former Imperial House do not count at this stage - they were totally ineffective vs Dagon's invasion as were the legions ...

1) Nords vs Morrowind, Summerset and Bretony - Mer Imperium Est;

2) Nords vs Morrowind and Summerset vs Bretony - Mer Imperium or chaos;

3) Nords vs Morrowind, Bretony vs Summerset - Mer Imperium or Human (likely mer) or chaos;

4) Nords vs Morrowind vs Summerset vs Bretony - total chaos or stagnation with Occato remaining as Cancellor;

5) If Occato is able to make the necessary deals to take the mantle and proves popular then the Imperium survives - but it will be very shaky.

One last thought - should Helseth marry an appropriate Cyrodillian heiress? That might change things.

Barenziah for Empress anyone?

Maybe the Blades will take charge of a couple Legions, along with some land in Bruma and Skyrim, and establish the Theocracy of Talos?
I'm foolin

Maybe, maybe not.

Even during the previous war with the Empire, Morrowind could barely hold ground. Now that the Tribunal has failed, why would Morrowind attack without any heroes? Their dependencies on foreign help is greater now than ever before. They'll still be cleaning up Morrowind of it's corpus beasts, blightet creatures and ash kin.

edit:

Or as I said a few weeks back, the children of the disinherited Andorak, son of Uriel Lariat, also Uriel Septim the IV, step-brother to Cassynder, son of Empress Katariah, will be given the crown. Not that anyone couldn't receive the throne, but the Council may see fit to keep the Septim line alive. It would be amazing to see the end of the Septim Dynasty, which outlived even the Reman/Potentate Dynasty.

I thought for sure Lord Dren would be pulling for himself, I guess you aren't very ambitious.

"Or as I said a few weeks back, the children of the disinherited Andorak, son of Uriel Lariat, also Uriel Septim the IV, step-brother to Cassynder, son of Empress Katariah, will be given the crown. Not that anyone couldn't receive the throne, but the Council may see fit to keep the Septim line alive. It would be amazing to see the end of the Septim Dynasty, which outlived even the Reman/Potentate Dynasty."

Come to think of it who (in Nirn) cares if it is a Septim or not that gets the throne, they have lost their precious neckless, really it would only be the name that keeps them their. I think their time has come when they lost the neckless. Some new dynasty should start now, a dynasty that will earn the crown. Not some topper who happens to be related in some distant way to the Spetims. :rock:

Actually, I am pulling for myself...

Hint:

"It would be amazing to see the end of Septim Dynasty..." :flamethrower:


And the beginning of mine! :celebration:

Which is why I don't think morrowind would attack, but instead get cozy with the imperial government. Helseth needs legion intervention to resolve the current nord/redoran conflict, and he won't get it unless he can win ocato's favor. After the oblivion crisis it wouldn'[t suprise me if many of the provincial farmlands suffered crop failures due to the daedra, or were in some way hindered in gathering crop. WIth famine on the rise, helseth's eggmines will be a much needed source of food (assuming the daedra didn't purge the mines of the queens). He can sell kwama egg's cheaply to those provinces that ocato views favourably, while starving other provinces with high prices. By getting ocato's favor, he can defeat the nord's with the legions and then begin taking full control over morrowind by eradicating the house system. The temple will probably collapse in a few years anyway in terms of influence, especially now that dagoth Ur is gone (no longer need god protection) and that the gods themselves are gone.

My own (largely unfounded) theory:

Cyrodiil holds together, just about, under the Elder council. The legions are recalled.

Morrowind breaks away, and establishes it empire again, fighting off teh skyrim invasion and perhaps extending into black marsh.

Argonian government collapses. Every outlander who hadn't already left does now.

High rock stays faithful, but the different kingdoms begin to quarrel, and they aren't in any state to help the Cyrodiils anyway.

Hammerfell carries on much as it did before, perhaps extending tehir territory further north.

Skyrim kingdoms begin to flex tehir muscles, continuing ethir war with teh Dunmer and looking towards the Imperial Province for future expansion.

Elsweyr carries on as before, but the Renridjra Krin increae teh volume of atacks on the border to cyrodiil.

Summerset isle carries on teh anti imperial feeling, declaring independance, but not actually attacking anything.

Valenwood carries on as before.

Telling Oborrowind - they lost the necklace and the Throne as a matter of prophesy.

There is a change to the balance of things Deific too - if the 'Trial' remains Lore then Vivec is now more a God than he ever was and there is the question of Jaggawotsit and his nemesis ... add in strange things happening re the Moons following the freeing of the Heart - and the identity of the Heart too - the Nords claim it belonged to Shorr.

Also the return of Yffre

Morrowind never had an empire, though.

Your comment evoking the British Empire into it was also silly sounding, shades.



Descendants of whom? The conquered people themselves effectively became Roman citizens once conquered, or at least it could be seen that way in for certain periods.



Very well, then. I'm saying that most, if not all could have yielded an emperor if the circumstances were right. Just becuase it did not occur in history, does not remove the possibility.

It was satire, I was ridiculing your statement.

Descendants of the Roman patricians.

there was a mer Empire though - the same lot that the guys in Ob claimed to be from - Aylieds - the guys who created the architecture that the Imperials copied

and there was Aldmeris ...

really almost all the mer were one race at one time - and then things happened ... and they diversified

Sorry. Couldn't tell if you were being serious or not.



Taken. Not all emperors rose from the Rome patricians though. Trajan and Philip the Arabian being clear examples, from both the territorial extremes.

well the blades will become very bored until a emperor is crowned.

the nords will probably attack something- they are always in a border dispute.

the skooma trade becomes very succesful of the weakened legions

if a huge civil war happens the dark brotherhood will be very busy.

the mages and fighters guild if a civil war happens may get dragged into the fighting.

1.) Anxious, not bored.

2.) The Redoran? Possibly a final assault to end their existance?

3.) Ok, who cares?

4.) The Dark Brotherhood was crippled by the PC in OB. I doubt they will have their act together in the near future but its possible.

5.) I doubt they would be dragged into it. I'd assume they would willingly side with whomever they thought had the best intentions for their guild.

Rally to the Redoran - Bring on the Nords! We beat the Nords before, we will beat them again - and any House that dares face us in open combat!

Redoran has less territory - that makes it more defensible. Too bad about Ald'Ruhn and that Gate, but that just reminded us that there is more to survival than business. There are times when the sharp edge of a sword is required.

We know why Dagon sent a Siege Engine to Ald'Ruhn - because Hlaalu are doing his work for him. Time we fought back.

Yes, and while the Redoran are out war, the Hlaalu are unstable, but my mighty house, the wisest of all the mortals in Tamriel, still prevail.

Long Live the Telvanni!!

The Telvanni are probably the most stable and secure house, but they have little political interest.

If Helseth put together a concentrated effort on saving the Redoran, he might gain their support if he succeeds. Redoran would be a formidable ally if it could get back on its feet.

And if Helseth could somehow gain the support of the Telvanni he would really have a legitimate chance at the throne. If not, Morrowind would still be one of the most powerful and defensable provinces, possibly able to fend off an invasion from a weakend Empire, should Helseth choose to cut his ties. IMHO.

Yes, should Helseth send some sort of deal to the Telvanni, he could easily gain their trust.(For what it's worth)
But yea, I'm sure the other Houses, aside from the Telvanni, would want to see their only defenders crumble. If the Duke wanted to protect his province, he'd go straight to Helseth and Barenziah. Although going to Helseth's mother to gain sympathy may only anger the King, so maybe it'd be up to Helseth. Lest we forget:

the Empire was, in a sense, responsible for his fathers death and
utterly useless in a time of need