I have a few questions and complaints about Oblivion's messing up of the lore and if we have any real explanations.

Oblivion has been known to change quite a bit of lore. One of the biggest lore changes was Cyrodil changing from a jungle to the unimaginative and unoriginal landscape it has today. Is there any real explanation for this besides "Tiber Septim did it" which really doesn't work with the time line since that would have occurred before the pocket guide to the empire as created. Also, where are the werewolves and werelions which were supposed to be in Cyrodil, according to the lore that is where they live. Third, why do we have no real Imperial forts just ruins (And where are the living quarters, armories, etc.)? Finally, what happened to the dozens of cults to Dibella which were supposed to exist in Cyrodil? Also, why is their no distinct Imperial culture here in Cyrodil like there was in Morrowind as well as the sudden change in armor for the guards. What is the development reason for this and the lore reason?

Also, before anyone says anything the Dunmer of Daggerfall did have gray skin. It's just the four NPC Dunmer that Bethesda forgot to finish/give the correct skin tone.

try http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1015177 place

I have been on that thread and really didn't find a reason and also, this thread is about all the things in Oblivion that changed the lore or just plain don't make sense (Lore/logically and to see what the lore explanation is.

Why did you feel compelled to make http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1025972&hl= one of these threads....

Werelions who the what now?

And there are no satisfactory answers for these questions. Posing them makes me feel exhausted.

I will point out that Talos' supposed transmutation of Cyrodiil would likely have occured after Apotheosis, while the PGE was published before. And a discussion of that oft-dismissed explanation is perhaps the only discussion we are likely to get out of this thread that doesn't devolve into melodrama, moaning, and complacent, logically dishonest excuses.

1) because the thread he made was too similar to the existing thread that the mods felt it'd be better to keep the discussion to one thread.
2) the aforementioned "other" thread has reached its post limit.

Also, the Dagerdude wants to discuss not just the jungle, but the other things mentioned in the opening post.

Um, hope I'm not putting words in your mouth, dagerdude.

Anyway, it feels like a lot of the 'loss' can be attributed to a dev decision with no actual lore backing.

Why do you care? It's a game and the world seems fine. If were gonna ask dumb questions like this, then why don't we start debating some legend of zelda lore!!!!

1) There are no dumb questions.

2) I care because I do.

3) Don't be rude to me about noticing flaws in Oblivion when it comes to the lore.



Your right don't worry, not mad.

Everything was being discussed there, not just jungle. And there are no satisfactory answers for these questions. Posing them makes me feel exhausted. But http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1015177&st=140 is one which is the least satisfactory, which is to say more satisfactory than you will ever find.

There is also a thread on why the hell they remove weapon in Oblivion.

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1026371

Oh my god... Your complaining about werelions and yet you don't even notice the absence of childeren. Plus what about morrowind i thought lorkhands heart was on the mainland not vvanderfell.

Daggerfall was the only one with children and I'm complaining about changes that shouldn't happen due to the lore. Though yes, I would like children.

your still forgetting that vvanderfell is way to large and is bigger than cyrodil when its not. Thats still hurting the lore.

According to roughly-translated game-to-distance methods, Vvardenfell is about .6 of a square mile in diameter, Cyrodiil is .7 of a mile, so this is untrue.

Plus, it is specifically stated that the Heart of Lorkhan fell on what is now Vvardenfell, that's how the Ur-tower (Red Mountain) formed and Vvardenfell came to be in the first place.

also a month to the calender is missing.

That was somewhat of a gameplay bug. The extra month was coded in their, but apparently they forgot to implement it.

sorry i just figured that out. I forgot that vvanderfell is not it's own seprate island and that its an island right in the middle of morrowind.

Not to be rude Dark Fox, but if you're going to say things like:



and




You have no business being in the lore section of the forum. You are being very disrespectful.

Can't make children with permanently glued-on underwear attached to every citizen of Tamriel. Daggerfall lacked such an inhumane contraption, and is why that game had children.

There was no explanation provided ingame. Truth be told the only reason we know that Tiber Septim used CHIM to change the climate of Cyrodiil is because Michael Kirkbride, an ex-dev who pops onto this forum occasionally, said so. His say so, however, is "questionable" because it was never stated ingame, and thus is not "official" canon.

Also to build on my post in the other thread on Cyrodiils transformation, the lack of an explanation for the change probably annoyed me more then the change itself.

This actually has a logical explanation, though it wasn't stated anywhere ingame as far as I'm aware.

Basically the reason for the lack of a significant Legion presence in the Imperial Province is probably because the General in command of the Legion troops in the Imperial Province could theoretically apply a lot of pressure on both the Emperor and the Elder Council through the threat of force or, should he grow power hungry enough, he could stage a coup d'etat and install himself as Emperor (side note, both threse reasons are why legions in ancient Rome, upon which the Empire is ostensibly based, were never allowed past the Rubicon river). As it is there are just enough Imperial Legionaries based out of the Imperial Prison complex to keep some basic order along the roads.

Also the reason that the forts are run down is probably because they were either from the Second Era or the War of the Red Diamonds, both of which were periods when Cyrodiil was fragmented and prone to conflict, which would explain the need for fortified positions. Its likely that, once order in the province proper was unified the forts were emptied and fell into disrepair because the Legions were sent back to the provinces to maintain an Imperial presence.

Out of game, they wanted to make new eye candy. Same reason the rest of the armors were redesigned. Ingame, no reason is mentioned but this really doesn't rank anywhere near the top on my pet peeves with Oblivions lore.

People care because the richness of TES's unique lore makes it both compelling, and unique from pretty much every other RP out there. When illogical changes are made without proper explanation it detracts from the lore, and lowers their gaming experience.

Actually, it was in-game:

"CHIM. Those who know it can reshape the land. Witness the home of the Red King Once Jungled."http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/mythic_dawn_commentaries.shtml

Oh snap. My bad.

Proof that I should have read the Mythic Dawn Commentaries more then once.

Then again it is true oblivion had alot of missing lore. This actually proves that the game was rushed because not only is it showed in oblivion missing lore but also showed in its many bugs and glitches. Maybe if bethesda took more time with their games they wouldn't have these problems.

It probably doesn't have that much to do with being rushed but more to do with a simple lack of a vision with depth. :deal:

:turtle:

Dang those Mythic Dawn!