We are working on creating a Ayleid Ruins set and going further we need to know what people want improved on for Ayleid Ruins. So what were they?

*You can select more than one answer. Some options might not be in the poll, select what you agree with anyways. Also, the poll is just suppose to give ideas. This is more of a community brainstorming session, so any and all things you think would make the Ayleid Ruins more epic, throw your thoughts out here. Thanks =-)

Greater diversity of monsters/baddies. Greater diversity of loot.

I think it would be nice to have say, older parts of the ruin within a ruin. With the older one showing some signs of age. And I like the idea that each ruin had previously served some kind of purpose other than just 'cool vases for glowing rocks.' I don't know how you could implement this. But I think that when they are all handcrafted they will look better than Oblivions Ayleids already. Also, great work thus far, I am really excited for P:C's first release. :celebration:

less of them.

I think Ayleid ruins should have much more traps and complex puzzles to solve, followed by a more complex 'game level design' (i.e. many galleries, some areas more damaged than others, more immersive ruins).
And why not adding more objects representing this lost civilisation? ; )

I'm totally agree with your idea. Indeed, this can enhance and add more depth about the Ayleid civilisation over the time, and their evolution... Great idea!

I like where you guys are going. Good feedback here, keep it coming!

Is this for Tamriel Rebuilt?

This would be for http://www.provincecyrodiil.com/.
(there are no Ayleid ruins in Morrowind)

More cultural artifacts. IIRC I only ever found one Ayleid statuette.

The Oblivion ruins seem to serve two purpose only: allowing the PC to gain experience points and providing a steady source of income. When last year I finally played through the Oblivion MQ there was one ruin I would visit every week as it contained spawn points for bandits wearing expensive armour. An opportunity lost, I think, as the ruins are a very attractive feature of the landscape.

My thought on Ayleid ruins is that they were presented as pure dungeons. Creepy entrance, creepy noises, creatures, traps, corridors, small rooms or very big rooms with arches, gems and loot.
This is a dungeon, but this is not the remain of any culture. As far as I know we only are referred to engravings and words in a single dungeon in all the game. No paintings, no runes, no worshipping objects, no bedrooms, no kitchens, no living rooms... Who lived in that structures and why did they use them for? If they were tombs I can understand the many traps, they could be treasure holdings too, but in any case they were presented as remains of something used to live in or to serve a specific purpose as mentioned before.
The structures could be created as prisons, or to protect their magics and artifacts, but a culture leaves more footprints than valuous object keeps. Art, literature, crafts, houses, buildings...
If you do Ayleid ruins, please think first in the purpose

Dwemer Ruins are in my opinion far, far cooler than Ayleid Ruins could ever hope to be. Of course, this is Cyrodil and the Ayleids aren't the Dwemer, but I think there are some things you can definitely "learn" from Dwemer ruins.

Specifically, Dwemer ruins feel so "dwemer" because of all the robots and such wondering around. Talk about seriously badass. You can do that with Ayleid ruins, too; give a lot of them very distinctly "Ayleid" spawn lists. Skeltons wearing elven, specific elemental enemies maybe the results of Welkynd magic beyond the usual atronachs. The Ayleid ruins should be the "magical" response to the dwemer's "technological" so the enemies should be a fair mix of undead and magical beings leftover from Ayleid times!

I just don't get that impression from Oblivion's Ayleid ruins. Ayleid ruins may as well be the same as forts and caves because they're occupied by animals, raiders, and undead like everything else in Oblivion.

I also think it would be a -very- good idea to play up the Ayleid basis of the Imperial City. The screens I've seen look great and definitely convey that "Rome in fantasy land" impression we all got from lore before OB but there needs to be an Ayleid presence, too. It was an Ayleid city before it was the Imperial capital. White Gold Tower is an Ayleid structure. etc etc.

I agree with Zimnel. Ayleid Ruins weren't built for random adventurers to find their deaths in, they was supposed to be a place to live in, in the past. The design should reflect that. Like how you can find beds, chairs, tables, cabinets and all those things in Dwemer ruins.

Indeed. The Dwemer Desk is the coolest desk in the game.

My main gripe with TESIV's Ayleid ruins is that these places are supposed to be old cities. But, they suffer from Tomb Raider syndrome. What kind of people and city builders would put traps, mazes, and puzzles into their cities? Why are there no bedrooms, common areas, and other functional rooms? Windows, balconies, bedrooms, dining halls, libraries, theater, cellars, workshops, marketplaces, etc.

So, I voted that there should be more emphasis on making the ruins feel l like the ruins of a civilization, not a bunch of empty buildings filled with seemingly random traps and puzzles that don't really belong in public buildings.

It seems like most people want the ruins, like alaisiagae and others have said, to be more like old cities. I agree and I love the idea, but what kind of unique things would you want to see in these cities? What would the cities look like?

They would have

* Statuettes;
* Books (rare, as the climate in Cyrodiil is rather humid, causing paper and parchment to decay);
* Unique jewellery, well hidden away (as after thousands of years it is unlikely no robber would ever have had the idea to pillage an Ayleid ruin or two);
* Furniture (mostly fallen to bits, but still recognisable);
* A few garments (ceremonial garb, for instance).

Technically there is one, but it's very well hidden and underneath the Cyrodiil border inside a cave We used the white parts of the Necrom set very imaginatively to create the tomb of an Ayleid sorceror.

This. Ruins need to be something other than winding hallways filled with traps. I would love to see ruins that look like actual ruins, with visible separate buildings buried together, different layers of occupation, the remains of a culture. This means more logical exterior ruins, too.

To elaborate on what I want:
-Exterior ruins that are either http://gordonbrentingram.ca/photobased/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/14-tanuf-ruins-bombed-by-uks-raf-1957-9-photo-by-gordon-brent-ingram-1-2004.jpg or show evidence of http://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/ancient/images/ga/masada-ruins-430519-ga.jpg.
-Several distinct types of ruins - large city, plantation, trading outpost, temple, etc.
-Multiple interior sections not divided by depth. For example, the interior ruin could consist of the remains of an underground temple, the palace's dungeon, and random cellars linked together to form a honeycomb of buildings rather than hallways linking big rooms.
-Rubble piles, broken pottery, roots breaking through, and other signs of natural decay. Balance this out with demolished buildings, violated religious statuary, carve anti-elven graffiti, etc, to infuse each ruin with a sense of how the city died.
-Cultural stuff specific to the Ayleids. Special pottery, items of religious significance, cool Art Deco Varla stone decor, slave torture and restraining devices, etc.

I would still like to see puzzles, though. I've always been a fan of puzzles/traps created by time, such as collapsing ceilings/floors, round-about ways to get around a broken section, maze-like beams/columns/bridges, etc. More traditional puzzles/traps would be appropriate in ruins that are meant to be temples, dungeons, or tombs.

Oblivion ruins svcked pretty much, I'd never say "wow, someone lived here", I'd rather say "oh this is probably where they stored meat.

I sometimes wonder if Bethesda didn't mean the Ayleid ruins were actually necropoleis when they said they were "cities." Or at least that's what the ruins still currently standing seem to be; they have all the trappings of burial grounds. Though, that raises the question of why the Ayleids were living (or at least keeping slaves--IIRC Alessa was born at Sardavar Leed, which is a typical "dungeon" in Oblivion) above their own tombs. :huh:

I'll second what everyone said: more cultural things! I'm royally sick of finding Imperial septims in places they have no business being. City-ruins rather than necropolis-ruins would be good, too.

Edit: Puzzles are wonderful, too. One of my favorite quests in Oblivion is http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Vahtacen%27s_Secret, simply because it relies on a little more brains than straight up brawn.

I'm going to go ahead and say it - no they weren't. Weren't cool, I mean. Yeah, maybe at first, but they were a huge waste of time. I checked out so many hoping for something unique but aside from the one with Umbra and maybe a couple others, they were let downs. This was mainly in part to Oblivion's leveled loot system which meant you just got more of the same level of stuff you already have making it worthless. Sure, you can sell it, but there are much better ways of earning an income than searching urns for chump change or collecting the magic stones. To sum up my problems with the Oblivion Ayleid ruins:

1. Very little unique loot. I don't even care so much about value, it's the generic nature that killed me. Morrowind's Dwemer ruins got it right for the most part, there was always a chance of getting a neat Dwemer weapon, piece of armor, or maybe even a unique artifact.

2. Mind numbingly boring enemies. Again, more of the same in every dungeon. The Elder Scrolls series as a whole has been pretty bad about this: not enough unique characters or enemies in these dungeons. It's just not a rewarding experience going into these things. Not only are the enemies boring, but as mentioned above the loot they carry is equal to or worse than what you already have. Why not have a friendly group inside of one with a quest, like find a missing teammate who turns out to be a recently turned vampire caught by a clan inside? Or a larger than usual enemy of some sort?

3. Tiresome, predictable layouts. The scenery was really boring. Again, nothing unique between the ruins at all. Why not have one that flooded that you have to swim through for awhile, and no - no Elder Scrolls example cuts it. Bethesda could take a page from Tomb Raider's book on dungeons with fun scenery here. A crack in the wall you can break down and find a magic cave inside, maybe. A random plant someone has been tending to inside. Something surprising, something to keep the player coming back into the dungeons just for the surprises alone, let alone rewarding loot and enemy challenges.

TL/DR: Oblivion's Ayleid ruins are not rewarding. It takes more than a new set of graphics plastered over the same tiresome dungeon format with renamed loot to interest people. These three issues quite frankly applied to the entire game IMO. To make the ruins fun, just treat each one on an individual basis and try to think while you're making it "Why is this here?" Give it some background - CARE about the damn thing. I think that's the best start.

What they lacked most in was diversity!
I mean a deep dark ruin with traps is just fine, but they were all pretty much the same...
While some should have been cities, others should have been Tombs, Necropolis etc.
You should be able to tell a difference, even if that meant to make them smaller or fewer in numbers.
Paying attention to detail is essential for creating Athmosphere!

Diversity of dungeon and creatures along with culture seem to be the big themes here so far. Very good stuff you guys are suggesting and this is certainly helping us to decide how we will tackle our Ayleid ruins. Keep it coming.

Oblivion's Ayleid ruins were in fact tombs and sanctuaries, not residences. Look at White-Gold Tower and http://images.uesp.net//1/1c/Carac_Agaialor.jpg, they lived on the surface like nearly all other elven races. This makes sense, given their reverence toward the elements (particularly light) and their tendency toward nature symbolism, particularly trees and birds. Their ruins are not extensive on the surface, presumably, for the same reason that the ruins of conquered civilizations on Earth are typically not extensive-- centuries of looting, encroachment of the environment, and exposure to the elements. I don't think the Dwemer ruins were particularly well-done either-- bedframes were found right next to massive turbines, and they generally felt much more like dungeons than cities. :grad:

@OP-- I would suggest reading http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Glories_and_Laments for inspiration on Ayleid ruins. I don't think I ever encountered a ruin this cool in the game, and it might be a good starting point Plus, this way whatever you do is lore-friendly!



I would also suggest adding cultural artifacts (ancient weapons/armor, misc. items, etc.) and unique creatures. With regard to the latter, Ayleid specters, magical wisps, and flesh golems would probably not look out of place. And maybe the lich of an Ayleid king for a unique encounter?

The first option a million times.

Where's the beds, cups, plates, furniture, jewelry, statuettes, art and other clutter? The only ayleid artifacts in Oblivion were armor, weapons, abstract statues and magical lightbulbs.

Where's the actual cities? All I saw in Oblivion were tombs. Granted we didn't really see dwemer "cities" but still.

The remains of a battle that took place thousands of years ago, ayleid ghosts, zombies in rusty elven armor, creepy whispery far off voices in an alien tounge.... :celebration: