I would never stoop so low as to bash a TES game, as I have an appreciation for all of them regardless of popular fan opinion.

When I see Oblivion bashing happen, I defend it because it's a game I enjoy.

well, a lot of the lore friendly subjects are given by dlc?s like mehrunes razor,I understand consoles don?t get them ? anyway in vanilla a lot of the more lorefriendly stuff are gone

have played my share of oblivion,vanilla and modded the crap out of it,nowadays I can?t play it without mods,are some fun ones out there,some that are pure fun

I don?t bash oblivion as a whole,I can on occasion point out some less good things about the game,but seems like it is consensus about it more or less,levelling system,fast travel,compass,boring repetive voiced actors,daedric and glass armor all over the place etc.That radiant AI works somewhat, beefed up raynil dralas and the grey prince my self with it,works so I got a kick ass raynil now,fun

still love the game,shivering isles are cool though,the elder counsil,blood and mud and the dlc?s are more than ok,getting the look of npc?s to be improved wth mods and some vampire mods into it and oblivion aren?t so bad

I've played all four games in the TES series, and honestly, there's just something about Oblivion that hasn't captured my attention the way Morrowind did and still does. It could be that I haven't played Oblivion enough or gotten far enough into the main quest line in Oblivion to know. What I can say is that of the times I've played it, I've really felt something was missing. To me, impressive graphics are nice, but still, you can have the best looking game out there, but if the storyline (which is better in Morrowind by far) isn't that great, then it really doesn't matter what the rest of the package is like.

To me, Morrowind is way more immersive, and it feels like the creators took the time to really flesh out the relations between the various factions, such as the animosity between the Mages Guild and House Telvanni, for example. That's one of my complaints about Oblivion in general, not enough factions. And, Morrowind truly felt like a different world, what with the exotic creatures. Alits, Guars and the Nix-hounds coming to mind. Rats, deer, wolves, bears and mountain lions - meh. And the landscape - I'll take an ash storm and the howling wind over Ald-Ruhn over green hill after green hill any day.

Also, from a faction level, Morrowind had the Morag Tong, the three Great Houses, The Imperial Legion and Imperial Cult, the Thieves guild, the mage's guild, the fighter's guild and the Temple, along with the Blades in the main quest (which can be completely ignored, yet you could still flesh out your character with the other options I've listed) and with the expansions, the East Empire Company. With all of those, there's more directions in which you could take your character as opposed to the mage's guild, fighter's guild, thieves guild and dark brotherhood in Oblivion. Technically, I suppose you could include the option of rising to be the Arena champion. Still, to me it feels like there's just not as much choice.

And overall, I'd say that Morrowind does have far more depth than Oblivion does, and in my opinion, Morrowind is hands-down, in so many different areas, superior. Also, if I'm going to have "fast travel", at least work it into a guild, like they did with the Mage Guild Guides, or leave something like the silt striders or boats. That at least, makes more sense from a role-playing level.

So, I don't think I've "bashed" Oblivion to say, just pointed out reasons why I think Morrowind is better.

I agree that Oblivion has some major problems. I want to see TES V turn out to be much more like Morrowind. Still, the amount of bashing of not just Oblivion, but its fans doesn't make sense to me. I hope TES V is very different from Oblivion though. Morrowind has many things that seem better, but sadly, I don't believe Bethesda will make TES V as deep as previous Elder Scrolls games either. They are aiming for more casual audiences now, and so I doubt TES V will be like Morrowind. I want it to be like Morrowind though.

Now...

If somone judged Morrowind harshly and admitted readily that "they haven't played it enough", the thread would be filled with flames and insistances that "Morrowind must be played for a good week before it starts to shine". There is obviously a double standard in regards to how Morrowind and Oblivion are judged in this regard. As for myself, I refuse to pass such a judgement. It's just something that has to be said.

Because they like morrowind.

I think he means the Oblivion forums.

And yes, they do visit them because they like Morrowind, and are just itching for an opportunity to bash Oblivion.

Post Deleted.

Orderly discussion is accepted here, calling other members names and flaming is not and can lead to sanctions against the offending poster.

It's not that I bash Oblivion (It's not that I really bash Fallout 3 either)

I am however, critical about the quality of the game

Recently I've started to like Oblivion more and realize, compared to Fallout 3, how much of a better game it is (even with all its flaws)

They aren't actually saying it has NO lore when they say "Oblivion has no lore!" they're actually saying the lore it does possess is very watered down in comparison to previous games.


Listing all the lore missing from morrowind (which didn't exist until years after morrowind was released), is hardly proof that Oblivion has lot's of lore. Not disagreeing with you or anything; just saying.


Just because the ruins have lot's of rooms doesn't mean they aren't generic. After all, Arena was a massive though fairly generic game.

The dungeons in Oblivion WERE generic though. There were three types: fort ruins, Alyied ruins, and caves. The way they were spaced around the world made them feel artificial.

Fort Ruins - Giant, sprawling basemants that made no sense. Also, why are there no unruined forts?

Alyied Ruins - Room after room of booby traps, plus no living quarters =WTF? That's the difference between the Alyied ruins in Oblivion and the Dwemer ruins in Morrowind. The underground cities of the dwarves were actually designed to look like cities. The underground Alyied "cities" were designed to be dungeon romps for players.

Caves - They had doors.


Things in bold I've never seen in my vanilla version of OB.

Also, why'd you include skooma on the list? It's in the game, but I see a lot more potential for lore and quests that the devs could have included. All we've got is the drug itself and a skooma den or two. Would've been cool if there were some quests or something that had to do with smuggling. morrowind had skooma too, and moon sugar. And quests dealing with skooma and moon sugar.

Oblivion is a fantastic game that bethesda made to reach out to the more casual gamer in order to make more money. That's fine; I don't have a problem with that because I'm not Bethesda's mom. But of course some hardcoe fans are going to feel alienated because of the way lore was left out in the rain to get all soggy. I just hope they can get some type of balance for the next TES game.

Then you haven't played long enough.

You're criticizing a game for lacking content just because you haven't "found it yet". This is a habit you may want to break.

Okay, you were right here. But picture us in the "people who played morrowind first's" place when TES V comes out. TONS and I mean TONS of new players are just going to randomly pick it up at gamestop because they thought it looked good or they just had the money. They start playing it and go "this is the best game ever!" They would join the forums and start typing in "what is Ob-liv-ion" and stuff and we would get so mad at them for ignoring our history! I played Oblivion first, then arena, then (some) Daggerfall, and I just started Morrowind. I just can't blame the bashing. But in a way, I agree with everything you are saying... We will always pay the most respect to the game we played first, even if we liked other ones (secretly) better.

Did anyone else feel that, despite whatever game you preferred, the Shivering Isles and Knights of the Nine were fantastic?

I just found out I posted something wrong in that. I need to fix it.

What I changed is in bold:

"I accept other people's opinions, but to insult Oblivion players directly and to constantly make it known that one hates Oblivion and thinks less of its fans is too much. I love all Elder Scrolls games and would defend them all, but there is a civil war betweem Morrowind and Oblivion players and Oblivion players are thought of inexperienced-with-RPGs FPS addicts by the the people I am referring to. I am not referring to the people that like Morrowind and dislike Oblivion, but I am referring to the people whot take every opportunity to make it known that they believe Oblivion and its fans are some sort of abomination to the TES series and fans. Refer to what AlexPej79 said. I tried to make a thread praising Bethesda for Oblivion, a few months ago, and that turned into a "why The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion is the worst game in the history of the universe." thread by the type of people I am referring to."

I agree that the history and legacy of the series should be preserved, but that doesn't necessarily mean that every fan of the latest installment in a series is some sort of narrow-minded dunce who can't see past the latest games "sweet graphix" and such. I believe the series is to be appreciated as a whole - bashing one installment while mindlessly praising the rest is silly.

Drunken Goblin-One dead one in the game.
Sunken Forest-Didn't look like a forest. More like natural cave structures. Also only one in the game.
Bandit and Marauder War-Again, only one in the game. In the most "farm your gear" friendly areas in the game.
Pirate Ship-Two(three if you get the thieves den dlc) in game. Hardly seems like something amazing too. The only working one never does anything. It's just there for a dark brotherhood quest and nothing else.
Hidden monsters-One. And it's rarely invisible. I found it 7/8 times completely rendered in color.

Those few things don't really do much for the "oblivion ruins aren't generic" or "oblivion is generic" arguments.

That's funny.

I'm not criticising it though.
I said: I honestly haven't seen the sunken forests, drunken goblins, bandit and marauder wars, or more than one pirate ship. Which makes me doubt they exist.
There's, like, a grand total of four ships in the game. One of them is the pirate ship at the IC docks.
I don't even know what a sunken forest is.
How do we know the goblins are drunk? Kind of hard to compare them to a sober goblin...
Bandits and marauders war against each other?


(EDIT: Forgot about the pirate ship at the anvil docks. Actually, I forgot it is a pirate ship. Been a while...)

Incorrect. There are many more than the one you discovered.

The fact that you're willing to present such as thing as fact is telling, indeed. Know the game your criticizing before you criticize it.

I don't see how TES fans can say this stuff about their own series. Oblivion IS the best game ever(to me)! But the TES series IS the best GAME SERIES EVER.
maybe they were just disappointed... I sure wasn't, as it drew me in to TES. Like, I said in my above post, We will always pay the most respect to the game we played first, even if we liked other ones (secretly) better.

No there really is only one.
Also, jumping the gun a bit? How do you know how much I've done in oblivion? How much I've explored, killed, leveled, and generally played?

Yes, these are all things that are present in the game. Things you dismiss as fiction simply because you haven't encountered them. The simple fact is this: Oblivion is a deeper title than many give it credit for. They need only play the game to discover this. However, some are so narrow-minded that they can never "lower themselves" to play this excellent game. That's their loss, I suppose.

My advice to you is to play the game a little longer than the few minutes it takes to complete the tutorial. If you still don't like what you see after actually having delved in the game a little deeper, perhaps you'll be taken more seriously.

Dude, ronin, with that attitude this thread won't be lasting much longer. Try to be civil for the sake of this thread.

Just to reiterate and hammer home a point I made earlier, just because this thread is (predictably) heading down the same path they all seem to----

The problem is NOT when somebody offers up an opinion of the game. The problem is when somebody else insists that that opinion is "wrong" and/or criticizes the person offering up the opinion. THAT is when the flame wars start.

Every single time..........

I presume nothing, except that you haven't found all of the Goblin corpses in the game surrounded by tons of alchoholic libation. In assuming there is only one drunken goblin in Oblivion, you are incorrect. This is a fact.

EDIT: All of my posts in defence of Oblivion have been constructive.

You have to keep in mind that this is a gaming forum. I hate to say it (since I spend so much time on them) but gaming forums are just not places where you can expect to find a lot of thoughtful, reasoned, respectful debate. There are folks around here like Dragatus, Savlian, Amazon Queen and others who you can always count on to write a well-thought-out reply, but you simply should not come to a gaming forum expecting that kind of mature response from everyone. Gamers, more often than not (and I believe this is changing even now) tend to be males who very often have combative, either/or, alpha-male attitudes toward discussions on the internet. Thanks in large part to these people the level of discourse on gaming forums tends too often to be on the level of, "this svcks!" or "that roxors!" People who post like this see gaming forums as a place to dominate, not a place to listen, reflect and respond. Posting, to many of these people, is a form of PvP.

So, if you're not used to it, it's possible that you might be feeling a bit of culture shock (or plain old shock) when you read some of these posts. The best thing to do, I have found, is to develop a mental 'filter' to strain it out before it reaches your brain and starts making you insane. As I say, it saddens me to say this because I have spent so much time here and on other gaming forums. I really like so many of the people here: they are lively and witty and and continually surprise me with insights. Sadly, the other portion of posters make me despair for the future of the human race.