Why is it such a common thing to find people constantly bashing Oblivion on these forums? I understand Morrowind is an amazing game, but why is Oblivion so hated by some of Morrowind's fans? I bought Oblivion, and I loved it. It was the best game I had ever played, and it made TES series my favorite game series ever made. I started off with Oblivion and didn't compare it to previous Elder Scrolls games, and it had everything I had ever wanted in a game. I know there are some things that were better in Morrowind, but there are some better things in Oblivion as well. Why is Oblivion constantly bashed by fans of the series? I've heard people say that most Oblivion players are inexperienced with RPGs, that Oblivion is for FPS-addicts, that Oblivion has no lore, that it isn't original, that it is boring, and many other things that seem to be too much. I have never played an FPS and have played RPGs my whole life, yet I enjoy Oblivion. Why is there so much hate for Oblivion, and sometimes for Oblivion's fans? Are people constantly comparing the game to Morrowind and not giving Oblivion a chance, is Oblivion actually that bad, or is it actually possible that Morrowind is that much better than Oblivion? I love all Elder Scrolls games and I have nothing against Morrowind at all. In fact, I bought the first Morrowind GOTY edition I found and am going to start playing it, but some of its fans seem to go too far in insulting Oblivion and its fans. Are Oblivion and Morrowind that separate in terms of greatness? I know there are flaws in Oblivion(level-scaling is the main one), but is Oblivion deserving of all this hate directed towards it?

They have nothing better to do. I hate when they say Oblivion is a different genre.

Dont get me wrong I love both games, but the main thing with Morrowind for me. Was the way it left you to figure out everything on your own that really hooked me, in Oblivion you have the quest markers showing you where to go. with Morrowind I had to follow the directions in my journal and more often than not I would get lost but have fun figuring out where the specific dungeon is located.

Some people got a little bitter how Oblivion holds you by the hand pointing out exactly where you need to go for a quest (Fallout 3 does this aswell). Its not a bad thing but some like to figure out as much as possible on there own without being led to the goal.

I prefered the story in Morrowind aswell but hey thats personal preference has nothing to do with the quality of both games storylines, Just felt much more relaxing how Caius Cosades tells you early on go get some experience, join a few guilds or go exploring. when you get back you can do a quest for me and if not thats ok too. while with Oblivion they kind of pushed it down your throat right away making you think it was super urgent.

I love both games but those are the two main flaws for me, and for other people. Personally I still love the art and graphics of Morrowind so Oblivions updated graphics mean nothing to me, sure I love Oblivion but not because of the graphics just the game itself. Im definately not a graphics lunatic .

Careful... this thread could easily turn into a mini flame-war.

My thinking is that people who love MW and hate OB are people who enjoy the time it takes to figure out where to go and how to do it, the fact that PC skill is more determinative than the player's abilities, and the amount of lore presented in MW.

From this standpoint, there's little that Oblivion offers; it adds limited lore, your chances are determined more by your abilities than the PCs (which leads to interesting things, such as picking a 5-tumbler lock with a secrurity skill level of... 5) and your hand is held everywhere; even when you are sent to a well-known city that only someone with an IQ of 2 can't find.

It's all about play style; sadly, however, some of the most vocal anti-Oblivion fans don't seem to remember that what they have is an opinion, and that the opinions of others can (and usually) differ from their own. And, unfortuantly, this causes them to believe that their opinion is "right" and anything else is "wrong" and then comes the flaming...

I like some things in Morrowind better as well, but to show pure hatred towards Oblivion and its players seems ridiculous to me. Some people do that. As for graphics, I'm not a graphics lunatic either, but it's truly breathtaking just to walk around in Oblivion because of the beauty Oblivion's graphics add to the game. Morrowind doesn't have that effect on me. I'm sure I'll love the game, but Oblivion is breathtaking in a way Morrowind could never be. Ironically, I think graphics are a great part of the series because they truly help me feel like I am in the game. I think graphics are much more important in TES series than in any other series. I'm not one who hates games with older graphics. I actually love playing many games with older graphics, but graphics are really stunning in Oblivion, unlike in other game series.

From what I've seen people GENERALLY like whichever they were introduced to first better.

I do agree with you, theres some sites that are truly breathtaking, expecially on top of a cliff and looking down and seeing the imperial city down below with the lake I couldnt help but be amazed.

Was just saying my own views on the subject.

I also prefer character skill, and Oblivion isn't based around player skill completely. We can block in Oblivion. It's not really too much of an addition, but the mini-games seem useless in this game. I don't understand what people mean when they say there is no lore in Oblivion either. There's plenty, but it's all optional. I'm still amazed by all the books in Oblivion, even if they are from previous games. The lore from Morrowind is still in Oblivion. Little lore was added in Oblivion, but the old lore is still there. The main differences seem to be dialogue and level-scaling. I also prefer Morrowind's style with those, but it doesn't result in me hating or even disliking Oblivion. I can't understand how Oblivion is for FPS players, according to one account. TES series has always been based on player skill to a degree, hasn't it?

Oblivion, to me, doesn't seem geared towards FPS players. Rather, it seems to cater to the casual gamer. It has dumbed down RPG elements, and constantly holds your hand. A lot of the challenge is taken away by all that.

It still seems to be an RPG to me. It does appeal to a wider audience, but still all RPG players.

I'm not arguing in any way. I thank you for your opinion. I was just adding some more of my thoughts on what is sometimes frowned upon by Morrowind elitists, graphics.

I like oblivion in a modding and casual sense, it not a bad game, but its certianly not a standout in RPGs. It is just too shallow for my taste, no hidden agendars, no choices or restrictions.

Morrowind only suffers from major AI limits, graphics and (sometimes) lack of direction.

*sigh*

The thing I don't understand is the people who take issue with someone else's opinion of a game. If you like the game, then go ahead and like the game. That's your right. If someone else doesn't like the game, so what?

Your opinion isn't wrong and neither is theirs-- they're just opinions and everybody has their own.

Broadly, I'd say that most of the problems on these boards-- most of the animosity and flaming-- don't start when someone posts an opinion of a game, but when someone else objects to that opinion. The opinions are never the problem-- it's the reactions to the opinions that are the problem.

Just my two cents........

If someone else doesn't like the game, that's fine. If someone has to make it known all over the forums that the don't like the game and they constantly bash the game and its fans, then I take issue with that person's opinion. I am only asking why such opinions are so strong.

I know a certain someone who goes everywhere (every subforum section) to bash Oblivion, keeping my mouth shut on who.

Didn't you make a thread identical to this a few months back?

On topic, everyone has their own opinion. Plain and simple. Oblivion is slightly more action based, and made for a bit of a wider, more modern audience. Morrowind is more of a 'real' RPG. I myself enjoy both. I like Oblivion a little bit more because I've played it much longer, and Morrowind's still a little new to me. But it definitely has potential.

Anyway, I don't really think this deserves a thread, honestly. You're obviously a die hard fan of the game, and that's great. But everyone has their own opinion. It seems like you need to just accept that.

The only one I remember was 'Applause for Bethesda' thread, that thread turned into an Oblivion basher thread when Seti wanted to make a nice thread for Bethesda.

Stopped reading there.

If this is the case, than you wouldn't get why people hate what Oblivion is.

Personally, I like it. It's maybe a top 20 for me, only problem is that Morrowind is a top 3. They could have done much better without much more effort, imo.

[Edit]

I then picked up and read the rest of the thread to avoid sounding arrogant.

To answer your question, Bethesda made Morrowind to be a pure TES rpg. You play Daggerfall, you play Morrowind, it all feels the same. A ton of lore (accurate lore, as well) and background to what is happening. The story is rich and engrained into the game. It makes you want to advance. I can't tell you how many times I played the MQ in Oblivion and sighed because I reached "that part". And there were more than one parts that were "those parts".

In terms of graphics, sure the graphics are way better in Oblivion. It's on the 360, and it came out multiple years afterward. Morrowind had great graphics for its time. In my opinion, the landscape of Morrowind, the variants of marshes and ashlands and alien exotic areas, is SOOO much better than Oblivion's landscape, where it's all the same only the closer to Anvil you get, the more the grass turns dry. And there's snow in the north, and darker grass in the southeast of the map.

In terms of scenery, I also prefer Morrowind. Oblivion, of course, has better graphics, so you can appreciate it much easier. But if you look past that, Morrowind has many more interesting places that look like it was thought out and created from the mind of a brilliant. From stumbling onto the lost fortress of Kogoruhn for the first time to finding the forgotten vaults in that one Daedric ruin, where the tower and ruins were built into the mountains. I also loved levitating around Vivec and admiring the city.

Oh, and I'm also not retarded, Bethesda. Thanks for treating me like I was the entire time...

That all sounds really harsh. I do like Oblivion, I just don't love it. I'm sure you could really turn most of what I said around if you liked Oblivion more. Morrowind was the first game I really dissected. I turned over ever single nook in that game. I still go back and play it over and do every quest with no feeling of repitition. When I remake Oblivion characters, I have trouble getting into it.

You remember threads from months ago?

I accept other people's opinions, but to insult Oblivion players directly and to constantly make it known that one hates Oblivion and thinks less of its fans is too much. I love all Elder Scrolls games and would defend them all, but there is a civil war betweem Morrowind and Oblivion players and Oblivion players are thought of inexperienced-with-RPGs FPS addicts by the the people I am referring to. I am not referring to the people that like Morrowind and dislike Oblivion, but I am referring to the people whot take every opportunity to make it known that they believe Oblivion and its fans are some sort of abomination to the TES series and fans. Refer to what AlexPej79 said. I tried to make a thread praising Bethesda for Oblivion, a few months ago, and that turned into a "why The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion is the worst game in the history of the universe." thread by the type of people I am referring to.

Very true.


I do like both Oblivion and Morrowind.
Oblivion is just not as intresting as Morrowind, example the quests are just that you follow red triangle at your compass.
If they would have done it like Morrowind I would have spend much more time with this game.

I know of those things, and yes, Vivec is amazing. I still can't stand it when Oblivion is constantly put down. I really hope TES V is like Morrowind in many ways, but in an inexplicable way, I still defend Oblivion. It may be my fond memories of it, or just that I don't like the bashing of the game that introduced me to TES. I am upset that Oblivion isn't as much of an RPG as Morrowind though. I really want to see the brilliance of Morrowind, but with better graphics. If I could have chosen what order TES games were made, I would pick Morrowind to be made last so the grahics would be great. I really can't explain why I still defend Oblivion, but I do. Perhaps it is that I am upset that Morrowind's graphics couldn't have been as breathtaking as Oblivion's, but it is those graphics(I know, but better graphics would have made places such as Vivec so much more amazing) and animations that actually prevent me from being satisfied with just Oblivion. I suspect Morrowind fans feel the same way and hope that the next Elder Scrolls game will resemble Morrowind, as do I, but I feel I still must defend the latest Elder Scrolls game. I am upset that Oblivion isn't like Morrowind, but... I just can't explain why I still am attached to Oblivion so much, even though I prefer Morrowind's style.

You really shouldn't let the graphics bother you. I'd take an impressive game over a good looking one any day.

Would you rather play a crappy looking game that's rich with activity and plotlines, or a game that looks ridiculously good where all you can do is run around a tree?

Ditto.

And further more you can upgrade Morrowind graphics, so it wont look so "ugly".

I don't usually care about graphics, but to see TES world in breathtaking graphics and to feel at peace among a vibrant forest in Cyrodiil is a great feeling. It's not that much of a comparison anyway. Oblivion is still good. Still, playing Morrowind with no sign of TES V in sight, and perhaps no hope of returning to Morrowind's style only makes it more painful to play Morrowind. There should be a game following Morrowind's footsteps, but with those amazing graphics that are perfect for showing TES world, but there isn't. TES IV could have been the perfect game, but it isn't and was dumbed down instead. My only problems with Morrowind are its animations and its graphics, and those could have been fixed with TES IV while keeping Morrowind's style, but that didn't happen. It will probably never happen because Bethesda is aiming at wider audiences, so it is painful to play Morrowind, what should have been the model for TES IV. Morrowind fans probably feel they didn't get the true TES IV yet, and they probably never will. I don't want to experience that feeling, but I am. This is what upsets me.

Oblivion is a strong game lacking creativity, diversity, as well as vital mechanics relevant of classic RPG's. Morrowind is a strong game lacking direction, motivation for quest completing, as well as a believable combat sytem. Just thought i'd say before my following points. I see both sides. Yes I'm biased.


Morrowind______________l____Oblivion l=My stance













Please remember that the quest markers are completely optional. If you dont want to follow it, set your active quest to something like "seeking your roots" and never bother with the marker. :poke: That being said, the journal can also be ignored completely, if you know its going to pop up simply close it and move on. Or get a simple mod which disables quest pop-ups(PC only).

Try getting into what your part of, Imagine a little bit. Morrowind required imagining of NPC's routines. IMHO that takes more brain flex than imagining a small past, which determines why your character would do what he does! Which definitely encompasses quests.


I appreciate the fact that bethesda made the game enjoyable to a broader audience. Good for thier revenue. It's called entrepreneurship isn't it? Business my friends.

Also..... why should age, or experience with a genre, be a limiting factor for anyone who wishes to enter it? Those of us who are experienced should be open hearted my friends, allowing our beloved series to be enjoyed by others!!! It cannot be hurt in terms of gameplay mechanics by a little bit of assistance to the needy. Besides you can even roleplay(imagine that, it is and RPG!!)




Whoa man, there are hidden quests in the game. There are even schedules run by NPC's which make them steal from each other! thats hidden in a sense, isn't it? And wasn't there in previous titles....

There are indeed limited choices and consequences in vanilla oblivion. But nothing a mod like Integration: the stranded light can't fix.


And that's the beauty of this series. We all should remember that this game is moddable!


I believe i saw someone say Oblivion shoves the story down your throat. Yeah, dont swallow it if you dont want to! why not cough up a few bits and stuff em in the fridge for later. At least i know i can be part of what's when I want to.