Not just in VRAM usage but also in framerates for many.

I`ll check it out then.

For those, who thought it was a little too quiet in here for the last days: I was three weeks on vacation, but I`m back now and ready to work on Oblivion Evolution again. However, I was able to send the rest of the permission requests during my holidays. I got very positive feedback for the most part, but there were some permission refusals too, some of them for mods I really liked to feature. As expected a lot of answers are outstanding due to people which have retired. I sent the last requests on the 21th of August, so I`ll decide in two weeks what I`ll do about the mods I didn`t get an answer regarding permission. In the next days I`ll be going through my permission request excel sheets and check the overall situation and evaluate if this project has a future.

I also decided to make some important changes to the project, the most important being:

• I`ll completely drop the gameplay changing mods for the first release, including some of the anti-exploits mods. I`m happy about this decision, because now most of the hard residual work is off my shoulders. So the first release will focus on fixes, interface improvements and texture replacers and if it`s successful I`ll reintegrate gameplay changing mods for further releases.
  
• The customizable part of Oblivion Evolution will be downloadable as a separate package. It will simply contain the Wrye Bash "Oblivion Mods" folder, the Oblivion Evolution mod database information, the Oblivion Evolution Wrye Bash settings, the Oblivion Evolution Bashed Patch, etc.
  
• There will only be support for the normal, uncustomizable part of Oblivion Evolution. The customizable part is aimed at more advanced users or those, who want to experiment.

In two weeks if I think I have enough mods for this compilation to make sense, I`ll post a complete list of the mods I want to feature (and have permission to). Then it`s your turn to critize the setup and make suggestions.

Just an idea, but if there were some mods you really wanted to include, but did not get permission, you could just point the user to the mod's link during the installation and provide detailed instructions for how to include the mod into BAIN installation system--it is really not very hard to move a archive to the bash installers directory. I would not think you would even need permission for this as the user would still go to the author's original hosted site to download the files and would install those files from the original hosted archive. Granted this would only work if there were a few critical mods you wanted, too many of these retrieve yourself mods and it would defeat the whole purpose.

There is no 'decision' to make: if you don't have permission, you don't have permission. If you redistribute their material without it, you are breaking the law, the rules of this forum, and the Terms of Service at any reputable download site you use.

Will you ever stop this witch hunt behavior? Klaus is just going to decide whether he will completely leave those mods out of the compilation list or point the users to the mod's links at the end of the installation, he's not going to include any unauthorized mod. I suggest you stop stating the obvious in each thread, it's getting kind of annoying now.

Good thing it's not witch-hunt behavior then, right?

A. I have broken no rules; you can kindly not tell me when or how to post.

B. I'm glad to hear you call it "stating the obvious", but I am not certain that it is obvious to everyone involved. Hence it being repeated to ensure that it has been heard.

C. The options you present are both valid. That was not clear from what he stated.

He has already understood how things works, there's no need to repeat these concepts over and over again.

dAb has about as much a right to tell you not to post as you have a right to tell Klaus how illegal his mod distribution scheme is would be. In both cases, the only real options are to lay off or to graciously enter into a contest of "who can say 'no, you stop!' more elegantly?".

I am sure that Klaus carefully read his last thread, that was closed due to excessive discussions about what you can or cannot do without explicit permission, so please don't repeat that here. Klaus surely knows all about that already.

Klaus, may I suggest that you list which mods you have received permission to use? It may possibly sway some to say yes, when they see that a good number of other modders have done the same. For the record, Klaus has asked me for permission to include quite a number of my mods, and I have agreed to it.

OOO has been a very successful mod compilation, and I see good reasons for allowing Klaus to attempt to make a new one.

+1

The only real option is to lay off, period.

And if anyone feels they can't, take it to PM and sort it out that way.

I've bee away form Oblivion for too long to know all the new and fancy mods and stuff that is all hoot these days.
Therefore I would appreciate a Mod Compilation like to one you are proposing.

Something that addresses Oblivion's shortcomings. And adds an overall rounded pack for the rest.

Looking forward to a compilation like this indeed. OOO 1.34, LAME, bg's RBP, TheNiceOne's mods, XP ... all of that suits me fine, even if I would have to add parts of them separately.

I`m working on a list and will publish it here in the next few days.

Maybe not, but your first reply seemed to assert that there are only two options (not including the mods or breaking the law). If you had read the entire discussion, you would have seen that other options had been brought up. It's also clear from the OP that he respects this community, its rules its members, and their creations. He said multiple times that if he does not get permission for the mods essential to the project, there will be no project: simple as that. If you can't trust him w/o evidence to the contrary, then yes, you've moved outside the bounds of civil discussion and into witch-hunting territory.



With that out of the way... as a completely irrelevant member of this community I wanted to express my support for this project. While it's not something I would personally use (I've spent months learning how to mod and recently climbed everest i.e. successfully installed FCOM) it would undoubtedly open up modding to a new audience, one that in the past was intimidated by the technical knowledge required to mod. What is kindergarden-level knowledge for some of you seems like alien technology to others: the new lingo alone can be baffling. I think everyone deserves to have a chance to experience a better working Oblivion regardless of their technical knowledge, innate intelligence, or dedication to the community.

I think the choice to preclude gameplay improvements from the first build is a wise one. It helps to dampen controversy and will help make it even less intimidating to mod-naive users. Many people are wary of changing gameplay but an easy way to fix bugs, improve visuals, and streamline the interface is a no-brainer.

I think the biggest issue here is whether or not Klaus can make it as intuitive, bug-free, and streamlined as it needs to be. Without near-perfection in these aspects, the purpose of the project is defeated. I can understand why mod creators would not want their mod tied to something that ends up worsening the game experience for players, but I hope they at least try it out before making that decision. Again, as a casual, irrelevant, preachy, but most importantly passionate mod user I think this project is important and could open up a better Oblivion to a whole new audience.

Subscribed!

This is very ambitious, I wish you good luck with it.

That assertion is correct — if by "include" we mean "include in the download", which is what I meant. I made a statement based on how I read the sentence. Perhaps it is not what Klaus meant; I hope not, but I'm not going to assume not.

How is that assertion correct when it's already been pointed out that there are more than the two options you stated? Klaus did not specify exactly what he was considering, but it doesn't follow that it means he's considering an option he already denounced in his initial presentation.

Your assertion was/is not only incorrect but a very common logical fallacy encountered frequently in discussions tainted with kneejerk suspicion and finger-pointing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

Your false dichotomy was this: either he does the right thing and does not include those mods in the download or he breaks the law by redistributing their content without permission. It's absurd because his statement was not referring to any specific decision such as whether to include them in the download. He could have been talking about whether to leave them out of the compilation, cancel the project entirely, "include" them by providing directions in the install for users to go to the creators' websites and download/install them separately, design/solicit a similar mod to do the same thing, discuss the project with those that refused to hope to win them over, etc. Indeed, his next sentence was:


This shows (if his numerous assertions in the OP weren't enough) that he is willing to cancel the project if he does not have the blessing to include the mods essential to the project. Your unwarranted suspicion and eagerness to point fingers led you to see something that wasn't there: bad intentions and shady behavior. What I see is a guy that is passionate about the game and wants to contribute something ambitious without stepping on any toes or disrespecting those that inspired this project in the first place.


Feel free, just recognize that there is no logical reason to do so.

(I don't know Klaus personally and have no vested interest in his project by the way - it's just that the tendency of some to assume the worst of and discourage people trying to contribute something is a pet peeve of mine. I should probably stay away from internet forums )

You completely misunderstood the post you quoted. That post stated that I assumed that his "decision" on whether or not to "include" them meant "include in the download", as in, redistribute them. That was a given from which the rest of my argument was based. With that as given, the rest of my statement follows just fine: if we are talking about whether or not to redistribute materials without authorization, then there are only two options: do not, or break the law. There is nothing false about that dichotomy given the assumptions that I'd stated I'd made.

In other words, I was acknowledging exactly what you wrote in that lengthy post of things-I-already-know.

You still misunderstand.

And yet more misunderstanding.

I acknowledge that in all likelihood Klaus has the best of intentions. However, I refuse to assume it. I will continue to assume the worst at every point in this project, if only to make sure that it doesn't happen. That was the entire point of my comment: to reinforce and restate the rules so there is no ambiguity. I was not going to continue this discussion until you decided to attack me. Frankly, this should have been over in one post: "Don't do that, it's illegal" "I know, you've said that already, I was talking about links or whatever" "OK, fine then" and done. That's all I was intending, and this entire off-topic mess is your doing, not mine.

You have to remember: I see nothing good coming from this. I see this as only a potential source of major problems. Those problems are what I'm trying to head off. I don't really care about the project, beyond ensuring that it doesn't cause any problems for those whose work is included.

Can you guys stop hijacking this guy's thread? Regardless of whether you do or do not support Klaus' efforts, this thread shouldn't be turned into a treatise on the human condition and optimism vs. pessimism vs. realism.

i agree

You can find the complete Oblivion Evolution mod wishlist now in the opening thread, including the status on permissions.

Now I need your feedback on this mod setup mainly regarding the following areas:

1. Removals: Which mods are known to cause issues? Which problems do they cause and how critical are they? Is a removal justified?
2. Exchanges: Are there mods which do the same but are better than the ones listed?
3. Suggestions: Are there any mods you consider essential that I forgot?

I also tidied the opening thread with spoilers. It was really getting bloated.

That "Crash Prevention System" should go.


Several (maybe more!) mods are listed with an outdated version number. That kind of thing should be remedied, I think. Also, Natural Environments is not ideal. Enhanced Vegetation, a different weather mod, and perhaps another water mod (or OBGE?) would be better.


Well, OBGE stands out a mile, as a graphical improver beyond comparison. Some kind of leveling that is not XP? Maybe Realistic Leveling, or nGCD, and also Progress (in either case)...?


There are many little things (not listed) that I like, but I have no idea how welcome they would be, or how likely to be permitted, for that matter...

Anyway, as far as texture replacers and the like go, the recent "Oblivion the Beautiful" thread would be worth combing through, I imagine.