No, it's definitely hit and miss, because I've tried every last one of the AA shaders for OBGE, and none of them actually produce an anti-aliased display when I use them. I've long since turned off forced AA in CCC so I know it's not because I screwed up and left it on in the driver.

Because that defeats the point of having a mod compilation, the vast majority of the time spent modding Oblivion is going to all the various download sites, going through the hassle of clicking through to find the download link, waiting for it to download (in the case of PES not a long wait, in the case of the nexus usually quite a long time for bigger mods). The vast majority of the mods on this list are not being updated anymore, particularly texture packs such as QTP3. Mods that are still being worked on such as RAEVWD, All Natural and AWLS hae had their permission refused, which is understandable.

I do however feel that including utilities in the release may cause problems due to the amount of files they may keep elsewhere and various dependencies they have. If they are included they should be in their original executables.

And you should package it as a BAIN wizard, the more who people migrate from OBMM to Wrye Bash the better as OBMM is incredibly outdated and painful to use in comparison to wrye bash.

I must also point out that it is not illegal to repackage other people's mods (the EULA states, essentially, that you have no real legal legs to stand on with regards to mods created in the CS), though that doesn't make it right and I'm pleased that makers of these compilations always take the time to ask permission before using mods, if even to satisfy some of the more pedantic 'tortured artists' of the community. Thankfully not many people with that kind of attitude make fantastic mods.

Glad to know I'm not the only one with that issue. I thought maybe something was wrong with my video card. Since I essentially had the choice of Godrays or 8x Edge Detect AA, I ended up dropping OBGE . At some point I'll come back to it and try to get it working again....

All I wish was their was a way to quickly check if any of your mods are out of date since checking on a lot of different ones gets to be a pain in the butt.

While it doesn't completely solve the problem, TES Nexus' Tracking Centre page is wonderful. If you go to the pages of the different mods you want to watch for new versions and click the track button, then your tracking centre will give you a sorted list with the most recently updated at the top .

what's the problem with not having the latest version of a mod ?
Being one or two updates behind is not so bad, unless there is a critical bug fix or a major change in functionality. In fact, being a version or two behind may even be beneficial. Sometimes updates have regressions and introduce incompatibilities and or stability issues that affect those using "the latest stuff". Granted, this is rather rare in oblivion, but it still may happen. Any one familiar with any Linux distribution will nod his head in recognition.

In any case I believe that installing updates should be left to user's discretion.


@ Klaus:

I noticed you chose not to Use OOO, along with every-other mod in the "Gameplay Improvements" category. Are you planning to use other alternatives or did you decide it wasn't worth the hassle. If so, it is a shame because in my opinion the gameplay overhaul is one of the cornerstones of a project like this.

Still, whatever you decide, I wish you good luck.

If a modder fixes a bug, he really doesn't want to deal with bug reports about it weeks or months later because someone hasn't updated the compilation.

A user not familiar with using mods and therefore the Wrye Bash part of Oblivion Evolution wouldn`t even know what is causing the problem, so he could find help in the official Oblivion Evolution thread. A user, who has some experience with using mods and knows Wrye Bash can click on the BAIN package and follow the link to the download location, updating the mod by himself. OOO 1.34 comes with several mods packaged which should be updated (I updated six of them for Oblivion Evolution) and I don`t think users are bombarding the thread with useless questions? If a mod is in a good state, it isn`t critical to always and immediately have the latest update.

I disagree, and I think you'd better make that clear to anyone who agreed to allow their stuff to be used for this; they may have assumed you'd be keeping things up to date.

Also, your logic fails because it fails to take into account the magnificent stupidity of a large group of people. Whenever you have a lot of people, there will be someone both smart and stupid enough to cause problems.

The people smart enough to figure "it must be this mod" without going "I'll check the mod's page/the forums to see if it's been updated" are most likely the sort of people that would be doing things like that (i.e. complaining about bugs fixed in previous versions to mod authors instead of checking for a new version) regardless.
Furthermore, as there are only a few of these certain people in a given large group, and as that sort of thing would happen regardless of whether the person was using a compilation or not, the end result is more or less exactly the same as if there hadn't been a compilation thrown into the mixture.

I'm all for overhauls/compilations, everyone has a unique taste and thats why we have so many as it is. A lot of them are just combination of mods to suit that players vision. I see nothing wrong with Klaus' intentions or approach, some overhauls were also abandoned and picked up by someone else if they had merit, or patched/updated by the community and many of them went for many months without updating mods. I also see nothing wrong with that.

Sorry but being a nazi about updates doesn't make sense, everyone does what they can and if someone has a vision for a new compilation, why not? If a mod user is too stupid to keep track of mod updates, it should be no skin off anyones back. It'll just get added to BOSS message eventually.

Edit: IF people were so worried about mod maintainability we wouldn't have the fantastic and complete overhauls we have today and that would of been a shame!

+1 for Klaus on this undertaking! Looking forward to seeing it.

By definition if a mod has bugs it's NOT in a good state though and I for one am not going to try and play the support game for people who won't use the latest version.

You make assumptions with other people's time. That's a bad habit.

Not trying to bring an argument here, but I think with this issue - a new generation needs to either learn that it won't work from their own experience or actually make it work.

It is a valid point that most are not going to care if it is the most up to date and those that do will seek out the newer anyway. Not being bothered with reports about older mods in compilations is purely a mod makers concern. And it is not true that all mod updates are fixes - a great many include new innovations (that often introduce newer bugs and issues). Mod users who do care are going to seek out the latest thing to geek on anyway. Compilations be damned.

I do though suspect (know) that this will be avoided once it is not updated that often and it sits on Nexus all shiny with a long comment column of what is wrong. Then the lessons will be learned.

Otherwise I'd say there is little point at this stage with more nay saying. It is happening - so let succeed or fail on its own merit.

See, my problem with that is that it won't be Klaus who pays the price for it — it will be all the modders who agreed to allow their work to be included, who get to deal with the inevitable headaches.

I'm pretty sure you've done your due diligence here DragoonWraith. Nobody who's read this thread could possibly have missed the points you've made . At some point you need to let people make their own decisions.

So it would be better if Klaus suffered ... ?

This is a mod compilation for mod users. I totally get the concern - I'm with you on it. I don't get the appeal of mod compilations for a game as diverse as this. I still think that the appeal of this wouldn't even be there if mod makers went back and updated their mods to make them BAIN ready and more installable/useable. Really that seems to be the thing. I've had my BAIN thread going for a few years and the number one complaint I hear from most is that it takes work to make all their mods BAIN ready. So I think this is the result of all the mod makers who say "not my concern" (and now they have a way to dodge that by having Klaus package for them).

You have to admit he got a lot of approvals, so if the included mods were approved by those mod makers and they see this thread and it is all laid out for them - then they already agreed to this possibility. If this is aimed at Mod users and it is not successful or works well then it won't be Klaus or the mod makers who suffer so much - it will be the mod users - and mostly from ignorance.

If a mod maker wanted to really be preemptive - as soon as they update their mod they can let Klaus know - if he doesn't update the compilation or point folks to the update then they just put a disclaimer in their readmes and threads stating that there will not be support for the use of outdated mods. It is still a very regular occurrence that mod users report issues only to find that they are 5 versions behind on a mod and that is without any compilation in the mix.

At this point I'd say don't sweat it - you will be able to say I told you so - you just have to wait. And Klaus not trying to dig at you - you also get the opportunity to prove us wrong.

Mod wishlist updated.

Permissions granted for:

- Improved Sky Textures (by Xerus)
- Phitt`s Phighting Phixes (by Phitt)
- Oblivion Stutter Remover (by Skyranger-1)

At this point you're more than likely right.

Well, this also fits in with what Psymon was saying. Those people are simply going to have to realize what this is getting them into by finding out the hard way.

I am so charmed by you, my emperor....

Klaus headache probably won't be mine, but his joy for sure!

That's asolution!

This not!


Frank and earnest, I do LOVE to bruise..err...cruise the sites for new mods or updates!!

This will probably be my last post on this project for a while as I decided to let it rest, probably forever. However, I`ll still be active in the forums, searching for help and helping others too, where I can. If you have something to add to the following post, you can send me a message, as this thread will get closed.

But why did I decide to let it rest? I tried my best and never gave up the hope to get this project realised, but I`ve come to a point I don`t have any influence over its success or failure... unless I wanted to cross a line of course. I`m talking about outstanding permissions. There are a lot of them and I definitively can`t continue without them. For example, one of the most important mods with outstanding permission status is DarNified UI. I was in contact with DarN as I tweaked his UI to my liking and he helped me a lot too with it. Unfortunately he seems to be gone since last december, leaving no life sign on his own forum for about 10 months, so I probably won`t get a permission from him anytime soon. Without DarNified UI I consider the interface improvements category incomplete. It`s just too essential to let it drop. And this is just an example.

I`ve read through this http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1216676-on-getting-permissions/page__st__40__p__18243951__hl__on+getting+permissions__fromsearch__1#entry18243951 on getting permissions and know what kind of permission policy some of the forum users have. I respect their opinion, they certainly have a share of the truth, but I certainly can`t agree with them, at least not completely and I`m obviously not disrespecting the modders and their work or I wouldn`t have taken the time to send permission requests. I think there is no completely “right” policy on this issue. There is no truth out there, there are just arguments. The case of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Kafka#Literary_career comes to my mind and it`s impossible to decide what would have been the right thing to do regarding his last will.

My argument is, that compilations are something necessary and important: they save the work of human beings for the posterity. I already mentioned the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Manesse once, which is basically a compilation. There will be no people left tweaking their Oblivion mod setups in 25 years. These mods and the knowledge to make them work will be lost. With that in my mind I encourage you to see the long-time benefit of compilations. If you don`t trust me to make it as it should be, then trust someone else. Maybe after the release of Skyrim someone should do something like that again, with a wider scope of course and including mods from all categories. Someone trusted. It really should be done. Not for my sake, not for your sake, but for the sake of the generations to come.

With that in mind maybe it would be even a obligation to get this compilation done. But why didn`t I cross the line then? Because I always wanted to make this project a community-wide effort. For example, I planned to include influential modders from these forums to take part in this project during the betatesting. Without the blessing and the support of the community a big project like this one simply can`t last. Kingpix obviously did a great job with his Morrowind Overhaul and one of the reasons is because the Morrowind modding community supported it. Having a well-made, canonical compilation also sets an end to the endless discussions about having or not having compilations. Rest assured, this topic will come up pretty soon again, maybe with people having less ambition and less respect towards mod authors than me. Take the burial of this project as a last sign of my good intentions.

Close requested.