So i was wondering about the death of the emperor of Tamriel in the hands of the Dragonborn, thanks to the dark brotherhood...

Does that mean the Oblivion gates would open again like it happened in TES - IV

Or is Titus Mede II not part of the septim bloodline and so it wouldn't matter...??

Well that depends on whether or not they decide to make that cannon. Not everyone played the DB, so the Emperor isn't dead in everyone's world. In my world for instance, the Emperor is alive and kicking, and the DB have been completely wiped off the face of Nirn.

no, the Septim bloodline is extinct (except for maybe some very diluted blood in high rock), and so is the threat Oblivion once posed



the Oblivion gates opened back in the Oblivion Crisis because the dragonfires went out.. the dragonfires were holy flames that an Emperor lit using the Amulet of kings when they were crowned. since Uriel and his known heirs were assassinated, and Martin could not light them to take the throne without the amulet which Mankar had stolen, the Oblivion crisis happened..


only a Dragonborn was capable of using the amulet to light them (remember how you couldn't wear it back in Oblivion), and the flames served as sort of a pact that would keep a barrier stopping any major invasion from the Daedric Princes (however, the princes could still somewhat interact with the world as long as it didn't pose any real threat).. this is why way back in the day, all the Emperors were dragonborn, they had divine right to rule


remember how at the end, Martin shattered the amulet and became an avatar of Akatosh, only to be turned to stone after banishing dagon? that served as a new pact, taking the role that the Dragonfires once served..



so long story short, nope no one has to worry.. with the amulet gone, there is no purpose for Dragonborn emperors anymore (and after our character, no purpose for dragonborn period, we are the last after all just as the prophecy says), so Mede's death does not pose the same threat Uriels did..


as things stand now, Emperors no longer sucesfully rule be divine mandate as they once did, but by their political and military merit

I don't know about that. I can't be entirely certain that Alduin is truly dead. Eveyone says this, but the Dragonborn didn't absorb his soul. He may yet return to fulfill his destiny as World Eater, and if that time comes, there may be a need for another 'last' Dragonborn.

the Dragonborn can't absorb his soul, Alduin is an aspect of Akatosh (specifically, the aspect representing the End of Time)..



Alduins goal here wasn't to eat the world (if it was, we would have been gone before we made it to the headsmen), he showed up and wanted to rule it (thats why he was reviving Dragons, to run his own little dragon empire like he tried back during the Dragon Cult.. he wouldn't need all those dragons if he was planning to devour the world), what we did was send him back to daddy Aka until the actual end of the Kalpa, at which point he will take up his true role as world eater and devour the world, just like hes done with previous kalpas

And what a good job they are doing, Aldmeri dominion founded by thalmor under there very nose, Valenwood conquered, Elsweyr joined the Dominion, Hammerfell seceded, Morrowind in chaos, Skyrim about to secede, Imperial city sacked, i mean please, DBs not ruling for 200 years and everything goes to [censored], and didn't Parthy said it's nature of dragons to dominate/rule and as dragon in human body DB has the same drive...

I don't wanna get off topic, but things were going to [censored] long before the fourth era even started.. things started hitting a downward spiral roughly half way through the Septim dynasty (roughly anyways), with some major issue going on in at least one province at any given time.. lack of a Dragonborn Emperor has nothing to do with it whatsoever

You will notice that periods of strife correspond roughly with times when DB blood was removed from the throne, the first period of strife has Jagar Tharn removing the rightful ruler and instituting himself on the throne, and so begin the decline, then when the DB emperor was restored to the throne things start looking up (except in Morrowind that is controlled by the Tribunal and later Azura and her ilk and therefore a story of it's own) until the Oblivion Crisis when DB Emperors were all but annihilated, with the death of Martin Septim the Empire enters another decline, maybe not so much due to absence of DB as much as a fact that for centuries being DB was a defining thing that made Emperors legitimate and irreplaceable, without it every major noble would be vying for the throne, and so the Empire would be weakened from the infighting.

tell that to the wolf queen of Solitude



if you look at the empires history prior to the first game, the empire has always had major strife.. and many of those dragonborn emperors were completely incompetent and just made things worse

I'd like to note that Katariah wasn't Dragonborn and was one of the best rulers the Empire had. Therefor, non-DB ruler = disaster is not entirely true.

yeah, Katariah certainly was one of the better rulers, and she was not Dragonborn.. at the same time, Uriel II was a terrible Emperor, and was responsible for nearly wrecking the entire economy, and he was Dragonborn.. so was Antiochus, who nearly lost control of Summerset if it wasn't for a freak storm, and Civil wars were going on just about everywhere during his reign..



being Dragonborn does not mean your going to be a good ruler and times of peace will follow.. being a good ruler is judged by individual merit, not by the blood in your veins.. while Titus Mede II may not be the greatest ruler to sit upon the ruby throne, there were some Septims who were worse and put the empire into equally hard times even though it was in a better situation when they were first coronated than when Titus took the throne

I think people (in universe and out) are too hard on Titus. He tends to get blamed for the start of the Great War even though it became basically inevitable two emperors earlier and the unfavorable terms White-Gold Concordat even though the Empire couldn't have possibly won at that point and some sort of break was needed so they could rebuild. He was dealt a really bad hand and while he may not have done the absolute best possible job with it, it's hard for me to see how it could have turned out much better if he had. Reminds me of some US presidents, actually.

That's what being a king means, you are responsible for each and every one of your subjects, if king fails people die, he may not have done terribly but there has been 30 years since the war and what was he doing? With each passing day the Empire is getting weaker, not stronger, they are weaker now then when the war ended, Titus is playing it safe, he was unwilling to send legions to Skyrim to quell the rebellion because he feared that the Dominion would use the chance, and from what i saw that's basically what drives the Empire downward, they are fighting defensively, unwilling to take the battle to the enemy, had the Empire sent legions to Shivering Isles where Thalmor had it's HQ the Aldmeri army would have to drop there plans for invasion and return home to defend there base, it's all in the initiative, too bad Tamriel did not have Sun Tzu, never fight on your enemy's terms, Titus allowed the Thalmor to set the rules of the game, that's why he lost.

as the old biblical saying goes, The Son pays for the sins of his father..


as much as it is a terrible concept, it does serve true when it comes to peoples views of people that hold political power.. people see all the issues brought by ones predecessor as issue brought by the one

not true actually, the reinforcements can't physically enter the province until they clear Pale Pass, have you read the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Stormcloak_Missive_(Fort_Neugrad)?

putting aside the fact for a second that the Dominions Capital is not Sheogoraths realm, but Summerset.. what your saying is not that easy.. the Legions force was decimated at the battle of the Red Ring (to which Mede personally fought btw, apparently even wielding Goldbrand although i question what he went through to obtain it), they no longer had the power to attack the dominion, and it was either sign the WGC to allow time to rebuild before starting the conflict anew, or watch as the dominion slaughtered his subjects..


and even before then, RTS video game tactics do not work in actual warfare.. you can't just go "lets zerg rush their base", cause they will still have a presence there, and the logistics that would take when the enemies capital is an island nation would leave such a hole in your defenses that you would be roflstomped by their continental presence..



BTW, Summerset Isles are nearly impossible to invade, Tiber Septim himself (who had a much larger army than any that exists in the 4th era) couldn't even conquer it without dropping a giant dwemer, god killing, time breaking megazord (more commonly known as http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Numidium) on them, and even then it only fell cause they surrendered in fear of the construct.. you seriously think Mede's empire attacking it would have won them the war?

Tell that to France during WW2, because that's just what Hitler did, he Zerg rushed them with tanks, Army needs supplies you know, it needs food and ammo and reinforcements, and it may not have won the war, but it would push the Dominion into stalemate, and sorry for the mistake BTW, sorta mixed up the two. Anyway once you cut enemy supply lines there offensive power is greatly diminished, as is there moral, but he should have done it when they just started attacking, not when they were on the verge of victory, now they hold almost as much land as the Empire, in the next war the Empire will be steamrolled. If the legion invaded Summerset Altmer would have to pull there army back to defend there homeland, which would give the Empire time to solidify it's defenses, the main advantage Altmer had was surprise and magic wielders. extra time would allow the Empire to fortify it's borders and enchant the gear of it's soldiers to resist Aldmeri magic attacks, as was proven with WW2 offensive in Russia a few months delay can drastically change the outcome of the war.

except the Dominions supply lines don't come directly from Summerset, most of its resources come from its continental territorys..



and once again, by the time the war broke out, no faction in Tamriel had the forces to successfully attack summerset.. once again, good ole Tiber who had one of the largest armies known was unable to successfully take it until he finally dropped the Brass God on them which was the only reason the Second Dominion really truly fell (the current Dominion is actually the third).. the only other near defeat of summerset I can think of was when the Maormer invaded during the war of the isle, but Antiochus Septim was the Emperor at the time and was a terrible emperor.. far worse than Mede.. and even then, the Maormer have some pretty hefty advantages when it comes to Naval combat..


if Mede had tried to attack summerset and still be able to defend his own border, it would have been about as successful as if Liechtenstein decided to attack Great Britain.. Summerset is far to defensible for any known 4th era Tamriel force to be able to realistically launch an offensive (especially since Morrowind and Blackmarsh left) .. another invasion from Pyandonea by the Maormer maybe, but not anything within Tamriel

Even better, then all you need to do is attack those territories and send ships to raid any shipping trying to bring supplies from Summerset, again it's all about putting your enemy on defensive, the one who has the initiative has the advantage, because you need to commit a lot more troops to defend then to attack, troops that Dominion probably did not have at that point, instead the Dominion forced the Empire to stretch out it's forces and defend the border and then they could pick and choose where to attack and overwhelm the deferences, i'd bet they left only a token defense force to protect the territory they took, but now they have time to utilize all the new resources from this territory to build up there force, while the Empire is reduced to a shadow of it's former self.

Remember, Summerset's an island and the Empire doesn't have aircraft. Nazi Germany was able to invade France because the border wasn't as well fortified as the French believed, allowing German forces to go around them. Even then, they never really defeated France. The UK, on the other hand? Set on a collection of islands and defended by the greatest fleet in existence. German forces were only ever able to land a few troops on the islands and could only really hurt them with bombers. The Empire trying to invade Summerset would run into a very similar problem, but with the additional problem of not having bombers or any other aircraft to make raids. And that's not even getting into what a Thalmor destruction mage could do to a wooden Imperial ship.

As for invading Elsweyr or Valenwood, those are brutal environments that in real life have historically strongly favored the defending faction. It would be like trying to win both the Vietnam War and current war in the Middle East as the NATO/UN forces simultaneously. Even the Thalmor didn't invade and took them by coup instead. Meanwhile, the Dominion's Altmeri forces are still free to attack Hammerfell, High Rock, and Cyrodiil.

The only chance the Empire would have had would have been to bring in Argonia on their side. We don't know exactly what Argonian leadership looks like, but we do know they don't do much on that kind of scale without orders from the Hist or a direct personal threat, which the Thalmor did not represent.

Lastly, the war started just days or weeks after Titus Mede II was coronated. He had very little time to prepare and no Blades to provide intelligence since they were all dead or in hiding. We also don't really know how well the Empire is doing now since we've only seen Skyrim, but most of Cyrodiil was burned to the ground during the war and you really can't fight without basic infrastructure. That the Thalmor agreed to a treaty at all was a boneheaded move on their part.

Until the advent of machine guns it was practically impossible to defend along the entire length of your border, surely the Dominion would have been able to see imperials coming but what will they do about it? If they send out there troops to meet imperials on the coast imps will simply sail around and land on another place, LindyBeige has a great commentary on this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMi-N5exqD4skip to 1.38 for relevant bit.

As for the original topic at hand...

The Limnal Barrier has been permanently reinforced by Martin Septim's sacrifice, instead of just being merely renewed by the crowning of a Dragonborn Emperor. Dagon's need to destroy the Mundus is one of the prime reasons it was created in the first place. There won't be any more incursions of the type Dagon made in TES4.

I'm not saying that the Dominion would be able to keep the Imperial forces out of their borders in Elsweyr and Valenwood, I'm saying they wouldn't need to. They can really just let the Khajiit and Bosmer forces hold their own provinces with guerrilla tactics while the legions are whittled away through attrition and not even having a clear front line. Which is exactly what happened to NATO and UN forces in Vietnam and the Middle East. As for assaulting Alinor directly, they would still need to get past the massive fleet that the Dominion would be stupid not to have built, considering that they were planning on invading a separate landmass. There's also not a very good route to attack Alinor from. They could go south from Leyawiin and sail around Elsweyr and Valenwood, which the Dominion would see coming well before the Imperial forces got close, or they can sail from Cyrodiil and Hammerfell, directly through the bulk of the Dominion fleet. That's assuming they hold enough of the west coast to make that possible. Their best bet would be to sail from High Rock, out to what's left of Yokuda, and hit Summerset on the west coast where they won't expect it, but that's a very long voyage and it keeps those forces away from the fight for an extended period, making their own coastline more vulnerable.

I think you are overestimating the dominion forces, i vaguely remember reading that, had the two forces clashed directly the empire would still have largely outnumbered the dominion, the dominion relied on quality of troops, surprise attack and the fact that the empire had to defend vastly larger territory making it so the dominion can choose to attack where imperial forces were weak, and thereby slowly deplete the legions by attrition, by the time of the signing of white gold concordat the dominion was practically at it's last leg, the territory they took was vastly bigger then they could conceivably defend with the force they had and they also sustained heavy losses in the fight against the empire, add to that the fact that Thalmor rule in Elsweyr and Valenwood, or indeed even Summerset was far form secure, they pretty much took control by force and suppressed any dissent, but the thing about rule by force is ti's very labor intensive, you need a lot of soldiers just going around keeping the populace in line. Dominion probably more then overextended itself, not that walking your army to Summerset would be a cakewalk by any stretch of imagination but it would be doable, and as i said, had the empire did this the dominion would have to pull it's army back to confront this new threat, just like NAZIs in Africa once allies invaded France, defense of your home territory always takes precedence over some away colony, and especially over any ideas you may have of further invasions, the important thing is that while the enemy army is busy defending it's own lands they are not pillaging your land, they are not burning your settlements and killing your populace, you have time to build fortifications, extract resources out of the ground and shape them into weapons and armor and train people in using the same, people can't organize to defend if they are running for there lives, like in chess, sometimes you need to sacrifice your bishop so your queen can check-mate the king.

Mine too. I've never on any toon played through the whole DB quest line. Can't do it, not even interested.

I can't bring myself to play the Dark Brotherhood quest, because I know what the Night Mother really is: She is Mephala laughing his head off as she strings along his gullible little band of murderers to do her bidding.

At least Nocturnal is forthright with being the Thieves' Guild's patron Prince when she presents herself.

Part of the Empire's problem is that with Morrowind and Argonia no longer part of the Empire, and Argonia a formidable military power in their own right, they really can't recall all their legions from the eastern border or they risk invasion from that side. Or they think they do, anyway. I think the Dunmer and Argonians just want to be left alone but it's still not a good strategy to leave that border undefended. And they needed to keep legions in High Rock and Skyrim despite them not being directly threatened by the Dominion at the time. Part of the problem with being an empire is that most of your territories were conquered and don't particularly want to be part of your nation so you need to keep a constant military occupation to ensure they don't secede or rebel, especially when the empire is in trouble. As a result, empires in general, including The Third Empire, can't really commit their entire military at once and can only safely project a relatively small portion of their armed forces. Part of the reason the western half of the Roman Empire fell was that their legions were spread all over to maintain the various occupations and couldn't support each other. I'm pretty sure the Third Empire ran into the exact same problem when the Dominion invaded.