[Fam Mughal]

Is it technically possible to recreate Morrowind's variable magnitude nightvision shader in Oblivion?

[Pat RiMsey]

Yes. Only it can't be integrated with the Night Eye magic effect.

Quick update : Not much to say - The last week was suicidally engaging. Any free time I've been getting has been spent releasing updates and providing support for the same. And I'm yet to pull the code from scanti's fork :shakehead: (I have to write down what I do).

[Crystal Clear]

Yes. Only it can't be integrated with the Night Eye magic effect.

Maybe some other light amplifying effect?

[Claire Jackson]

Maybe some other light amplifying effect?

I think shadeMe means that it can be done, but we can't set it so that whenever you cast a nighteye spell, you get that effect instead of the vanilla purple tint. I'm pretty sure this is the case for spells in general, although I'd imagine that if we can detect if a spell is cast by the player, it would be possible to toggle the shader when this happens. :shrug:

[KIng James]

I think any lighting shaders made should be made to compliment the god ray shader. For example something that detects where the rays are drawm and uses those vectors to determine where the scene should be darker or brighter. And if hooked fogging ever happens make the fog increase the length of rays and when there is less fog have ray lengths be shorter. I think that would make the cartoonish style of oblivion look much more realistic.

[Ruben Bernal]

Just curious if OBGE disables the use of AA. Can seem to get AA running with OBGE installed.

[Sabrina garzotto]

Just curious if OBGE disables the use of AA. Can seem to get AA running with OBGE installed.

Yes, that would explain that, if using OBGE no AA

listed in facts is this..And I confirm this has well ..

Q: Once I got the effects to work, my AA disappeared? WHY?!?
A: The method used to expose the information used to read the depth buffer is incompatible with Anti-Aliasing. This is
reported to be the case on both ATI and NVIDIA graphics cards. The only solution is to edit the obge.ini file in your
My Documents\My Games\Oblivion folder and change this line:

[DepthBuffer]
bUseDepthBuffer=1

to:

[DepthBuffer]
bUseDepthBuffer=0

This will however cause any effect that uses the depth buffer to stop working properly. This currently includes the SSAO (both versions), Depth of Field, Godrays and CelShader+EdgeAA shaders.

Either No AA and OBGE+effects or AA and go without all the good OBGE effects listed above..

[Catharine Krupinski]

Ninjad. :ph34r:

[Darrell Fawcett]

Just curious if OBGE disables the use of AA. Can seem to get AA running with OBGE installed.

OBGE doesn't in and of itself, but the way it accesses the depth buffer is incompatible with AA. You can disable the depth buffer in the .ini, but that also disables the shaders that use it, like SSAO, Godrays, etc.

[Rozlyn Robinson]

I think any lighting shaders made should be made to compliment the god ray shader. For example something that detects where the rays are drawm and uses those vectors to determine where the scene should be darker or brighter. And if hooked fogging ever happens make the fog increase the length of rays and when there is less fog have ray lengths be shorter. I think that would make the cartoonish style of oblivion look much more realistic.

Fog relation is in my list.

For your other suggestion, Godrays is not a physical part of the scene(it is a fullscreen blur effect. It is fake.) It can't compliment to lighting unfortunately. I mean not in that way.

[sally R]

Fog relation is in my list.

For your other suggestion, Godrays is not a physical part of the scene(it is a fullscreen blur effect. It is fake.) It can't compliment to lighting unfortunately. I mean not in that way.

Well that svcks. I understood the rays to be essentially fake. But if it were possible to change the games lighting to look more like this
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/38/89303475_1ad1da64bd.jpg
where the lighting is determined by sun visibility (i guess you would say this would be a form of shadows) it would look much better. Maybe I should try learning how to write shaders so I can attempt to implement my ideas myself rather than sit here trying to explain XD

::EDIT:: Any suggestions on where I should start reading to learn how to write shaders?

[Luis Reyma]

Well that svcks. I understood the rays to be essentially fake. But if it were possible to change the games lighting to look more like this
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/38/89303475_1ad1da64bd.jpg
where the lighting is determined by sun visibility (i guess you would say this would be a form of shadows) it would look much better. Maybe I should try learning how to write shaders so I can attempt to implement my ideas myself rather than sit here trying to explain XD

::EDIT:: Any suggestions on where I should start reading to learn how to write shaders?

Exactly. It is a form of shadows. If shadows were possible that could be possible too at one point. But those tree canopy shadows are fake too, you know!

For learning HLSL shaders:
first the reference:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb509561(v=VS.85).aspx

Second is MGE. We have a huge shader library from basic stuff to complex stuff. We have an editor, preview window and a great game to test them on. You don't have to work on quads and vertex shaders, you can dive right into shading. You can transfer your shaders to OGE easily too.

You can ask me anything, and I will gladly reply your questions if I able to.(I think I am good in 2D now, I will proceed to 3D soon. I have some 2D shader ideas left, I will do them first, HUD, haze, night-eye, water-droplets, HDR, bloom...)

PS. Shaders are easy, real easy. You can't possibly break something, believe me. It is like a machine already working, you just edit stuff. I'm calling everyone interested, give it a try.

PPS. I also want to see other author's suggestions.

[..xX Vin Xx..]

Exactly. It is a form of shadows. If shadows were possible that could be possible too at one point. But those tree canopy shadows are fake too, you know!

For learning HLSL shaders:
first the reference:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb509561(v=VS.85).aspx

Second is MGE. We have a huge shader library from basic stuff to complex stuff. We have a editor. Preview window and a great game to test them on. You don't have to work on quads and vertex shaders, you can dive right into shading. You can transfer your shaders to OGE easily too. I think I am good in 2D now, I will proceed to 3D soon. I have some 2D shader ideas left, I will do them first, HUD, haze, night-eye, water-droplets, HDR, bloom...

You can ask me anything, and I will gladly reply your questions if I can.

Yea i know the tree shadows are fake too =] Im somewhat knowledgeable haha.
Well thank you very much. Ill dive right into reading that and ill be sure to ask where i need to. Im sure you guys are always happy to have knew shader coders haha =P

[Penny Wills]

My Oblivion Graphics Extender Support item disappears when I use it the first time and doesn't come back after I close the menu. I've tried a clean save and then re-activate the plugin but that didn't help. Anyone knows how to fix this?

[Stu Clarke]

I was wondering if anyone here could tell me how to make the oblivion water look something more like http://media.moddb.com/images/games/1/1/36/Morrowind-MGE-rivershot.jpg it's a shot of Morrrowind Graphics Extender. The water depth/edge fading is what I want but I haven't seen any shots of oblivion that seem to duplicate it.

[Robert Jackson]

My Oblivion Graphics Extender Support item disappears when I use it the first time and doesn't come back after I close the menu. I've tried a clean save and then re-activate the plugin but that didn't help. Anyone knows how to fix this?

Mine hides itself in the (I think) Cobl menu thereafter. Perhaps Cobl needs to be present? Only guessing, as I haven't read that much of the documentation, wherever and whatever that might be now. :blush2:

edit: Actually, it's called "Options" and I'm not sure where it came from.

[Ownie Zuliana]

Well I read the sources with the link you gave me vtastek.

And I installed MGE and got to the part where you can edit shaders. I looked though a few shaders and attempted to understand it.

I understand most of the math parts I just really don't know where to start with writing my own shader. I suppose I could take bits and pieces of other peoples shaders but I really do not yet know enough to be able to piece them together. Any help? =P

[Sunny Under]

Mine hides itself in the (I think) Cobl menu thereafter. Perhaps Cobl needs to be present? Only guessing, as I haven't read that much of the documentation, wherever and whatever that might be now. :blush2:

edit: Actually, it's called "Options" and I'm not sure where it came from.

That was it, thanks m8!

[Rik Douglas]

Well I read the sources with the link you gave me vtastek.

And I installed MGE and got to the part where you can edit shaders. I looked though a few shaders and attempted to understand it.

I understand most of the math parts I just really don't know where to start with writing my own shader. I suppose I could take bits and pieces of other peoples shaders but I really do not yet know enough to be able to piece them together. Any help? =P

How about implementing the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purkinje_effect? Also a decent article on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_vision.

It's an effect I've been wanting to try implementing for a while now, but haven't had the time, and is fairly simple - it's just modifying the colour saturations. It's a bit more complicated if you want to factor in human colour perception directly, but that can probably be done using matrix transformations.

As for writing shaders, there's a basic layout to be had, which you can see in any of OGE's released shaders - globals declared at the top (for neatness), then textures and samplers, before a vertex shader and a pixel shader and whatever other functions you might want. Last of all you've got the technique (only one needed for most shaders) with one or more passes in them, with the relevant shader functions being referenced in them.

EDIT: It's also something that was on the OVEP To Do List.

[Stace]

How about implementing the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purkinje_effect? Also a decent article on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_vision.

It's an effect I've been wanting to try implementing for a while now, but haven't had the time, and is fairly simple - it's just modifying the colour saturations. It's a bit more complicated if you want to factor in human colour perception directly, but that can probably be done using matrix transformations.

As for writing shaders, there's a basic layout to be had, which you can see in any of OGE's released shaders - globals declared at the top (for neatness), then textures and samplers, before a vertex shader and a pixel shader and whatever other functions you might want. Last of all you've got the technique (only one needed for most shaders) with one or more passes in them, with the relevant shader functions being referenced in them.

Ah this was extremely helpful thank you =]

If I have anymore questions ill post. Hopefully soon I can start making good contributions to the shaders for OGE

[Nicole Kraus]

How about implementing the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purkinje_effect? Also a decent article on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_vision.

It's an effect I've been wanting to try implementing for a while now, but haven't had the time, and is fairly simple - it's just modifying the colour saturations. It's a bit more complicated if you want to factor in human colour perception directly, but that can probably be done using matrix transformations.

As for writing shaders, there's a basic layout to be had, which you can see in any of OGE's released shaders - globals declared at the top (for neatness), then textures and samplers, before a vertex shader and a pixel shader and whatever other functions you might want. Last of all you've got the technique (only one needed for most shaders) with one or more passes in them, with the relevant shader functions being referenced in them.

EDIT: It's also something that was on the OVEP To Do List.

I know that one. I can give it a try. But I have to fully understand it.

Now listen to this one. When it is too dark in my room, and I look at the clock on the wall, no matter how much my eyes adjust I can't see a thing. But,
if I look slightly off, around the edges of my vision the invisible clock becomes visible, and I can read the time. (possibly my retina in the center has doesn't have light sensitive cells but sides have them.)

@sheananigans,
check MGE shader Library. We have articles there. I plan to extend them with noob to noob shader tutorials.
(I guess it can be seen as MGE/OGE shader library too. I have some problems with file uploading system or I would be using there all the time.)
http://mgeshaderlibrary.wikispaces.com/Tutorials

[Lucky Boy]

@sheananigans,
check MGE shader Library. We have articles there. I plan to extend them with noob to noob shader tutorials.
(I guess it can be seen as MGE/OGE shader library too. I have some problems with file uploading system or I would be using there all the time.)
http://mgeshaderlibrary.wikispaces.com/Tutorials

Ah okay that also helps a great deal.

Ill get it eventually =P

::EDIT:: I see float1 float 2 float 3 and float4 mentioned quite alot but I cant see to determine the difference between what they do?

[Schel[Anne]FTL]

I know that one. I can give it a try. But I have to fully understand it.

Now listen to this one. When it is too dark in my room, and I look at the clock on the wall, no matter how much my eyes adjust I can't see a thing. But,
if I look slightly off, around the edges of my vision the invisible clock becomes visible, and I can read the time. (possibly my retina in the center has doesn't have light sensitive cells but sides have them.)

That's because rod density is higher around the periphery of your retina than in the centre of your retina. Hence, in low light levels, you can actually see stuff right in front of you less than stuff right at the edges of your vision.

The effect could be simulated using a radial distance function, with distance from screen space coordinates with (0,0) being the centre of the screen, and have the luminosity scaled proportional to radial distance.

EDIT: Some more info for working out the luminosity scaling needed: The article on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_cell has some info on densities and distribution, so that can be used to approximate a good model.

EDIT 2: Another lowish light level effect I thought of is a static inversely proportional to luminosity. I've already got this in my Color Effects shader, so with a bit of tweaking that should work nicely. I think that Purkinije + rod density effect + static effect covers most low light level visual effects, can anyone else think of any?

[Laura]

That's because rod density is higher around the periphery of your retina than in the centre of your retina. Hence, in low light levels, you can actually see stuff right in front of you less than stuff right at the edges of your vision.

The effect could be simulated using a radial distance function, with distance from screen space coordinates with (0,0) being the centre of the screen, and have the luminosity scaled proportional to radial distance.

EDIT: Some more info for working out the luminosity scaling needed: The article on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_cell has some info on densities and distribution, so that can be used to approximate a good model.

EDIT 2: Another lowish light level effect I thought of is a static inversely proportional to luminosity. I've already got this in my Color Effects shader, so with a bit of tweaking that should work nicely. I think that Purkinije + rod density effect + static effect covers most low light level visual effects, can anyone else think of any?

Not sure if this is included in Purkinije but in low light situations desaturation occurs. Bright spots however are still colored normally.

[Matthew Aaron Evans]

...
::EDIT:: I see float1 float 2 float 3 and float4 mentioned quite alot but I cant see to determine the difference between what they do?

They do what we want them to do.

We generally want float3 and float4 for colors. Colors are represented as red, green, blue channels. Those are stored in float3 color.rgb. In a float4 case, color1.a of color1.rgba is alpha channel. In a float2 case it is generally some coordinates like screen coordinates or coordinates of a 2D texture. But again they store what we want, float4 param.xyzw can store 4 parameters. It is color for hardware, but we can store anything in them.

@wrinklyninja,
thanks for the link. I am starting to picture a general vision model.