Oblivion had more in common, yes... but was it better than Daggerfall? I did not bundle them because of similarity, OP did the same.

I'm not saying Oblivion svcked, cause it didn't... but I found Oblivion a bit lacking compared to Morrowind and Daggerfall.

Pretty much what I think as well.

Then my question is "Why?" Why do you have Daggerfall and Morrowind on some similar level of greatness, when one could have come here several years ago and started a very similar thread about Morrowind haters, and think Oblivion was lacking? In which respects? Where do Daggerfall and Morrowind similarly triumph, particularly Daggerfall?

Well I'm one of the "new generation" TES gamer: the ones who started on OB, but lately I got a copy of MW and after I played through that I found Oblivion lacking a lot of complexity. I agree with one of the earlier replies about hoping it will be better, but if they continue the direction OB took from MW I'm getting worried.

It's true they didn't just stand in one place, but they rarely ever went that far for the compass to really be necessary. It just really breaks immersion to have it right there staring you in the face the whole time.
Now, having it work with map markers is a-ok, and maybe having it lead you to general locations like cities, ruins you've seen, etc would be alright.

I just really hated that feature. :/

As for fast travel, it just felt lazy. On my part, on the devs' part, on everyone's part. Morrowind, and to my knowledge Daggerfall, did it in a much more believable way, and it was hardly an inconvenience to have to use one of the several services present. Now, what could be done is to have Morrowind's travel services (of course, no Silt Striders, but I'm sure they could have something similar for overland travel...carts even), and to have Oblivion-styled fast travel, but with a chance of being interrupted, similar to how your sleep could be interrupted by rats-n-such in Morrowind. I think that would satisfy just about everyone, no?

Can't speak for Daggerfall ; the comparison Morrowind/Oblivion can be summed up like this for me : in one case, I had to survive in a land that didn't care two bits for me, understand its history and complexity was required ; in the other, it felt like the (very simple) world was adapting to me, handing me everything on a plate ; whatever backstory there was you could play without.

Don't mistake me here, there's tons and tons of stuff I love in Oblivion : but I didn't feel any bit as involved as I was in Morrowind. *shrug*

Well I don't hate Oblivion, I liked it, but I think Skyrim will be better.

I agree , better to stay optimistic

This would be fantastic, hugely immersive (maybe you could ask any character in town if they knew where any other character in town that you (had met / had a quest involving) was hanging out, and there could be a chance of them having no idea). And doable, the game must already track where NPCs are somehow, as the quest compass points at their location anyway.

The (obvious) trick would be to not name Bob, just say "I saw him heading over to Helga's". Cuts down on the amount of lines to record drastically, you'd need one line for each place in town for each voice actor.

they've both got a lot of things to do in them compared to Oblivion, though most of Daggerfall is random and completely shallow. honestly that's all i can think of.

i don't hide the fact that i'm not the biggest fan of Oblivion. i put several hundred hours into playing it, but it never fully clicked with me. however, i absolutely loved Shivering Isles and Fallout 3 and felt they were massive improvements over almost all of Oblivion's failures.

i'm positive that Skyrim will be a good game. i'm anticipating that it'll be a great game. i'm hopeful that it'll surpass Morrowind in my eyes.

First: I can't hate Oblivion. Yes, I think Morrowind was superior in many aspects that make a good RPG for my standards, yes I was disappointed by Oblivion in many ways, but hating the game? Hating a game that I had waited for 4 years, and that I played for about 150 hours? Hours of my life? Hours of my precious unique limited short life? I would find this kind of hating pathologically ridiculous.

Second: From what info we know so far, my guess is yes, Skyrim will be better than Oblivion in many ways, especially the ones the fans needed adressed.

Same here. :thumbsup:

actually, my one main worry with skyrim is that it won't live up to oblivion, which is by far my favorite game

I know, I know.
I just blew all your minds, that's right, some people actually loved oblivion to death for what it was

Oblivion is my favorite so far.


And I've yet to play Skyrim (For obvious reasons) so I can't say which is better.

I wonder why you think it's stupid thread? I admit I put an inflammatory title...but it was purely a joke. The fact is there is a statistically significant population of Elder Scrolls fans who were underwhelmed with Oblivion. This discussion is mean to be a level headed comparison between it, and what we know so far about Skyrim.

I put this question to you Silvade, and not who you were quoting, because I've seen your posts and you're usually pretty smart. Also, the fact that I'm a Clockwork Orange fan helps your case. I only hope you read the book, too.

I hope Skyrim will be better than Oblivion. I personally thought Oblivion was better than Morrowind. And yes, I played Morrowind before Oblivion was released. While it was a good game, I don't think it was as good as some people make it out to be. It had as many flaws as Oblivion did. In my opinion.

edit:

No, that is not a fact. There is a very vocal portion of the population of the Bethesda forums who didn't like Oblivion. The number of people who take the time to create an account and come here to discuss the games are a very small percentage of the total number of people who have purchased either Morrowind or Oblivion. If you go by sales, Oblivion was a much more popular game than Morrowind was.

I don't hate Oblivion and Skyrim will be awesome.

I didn't hate Oblivion, I just liked it the least of all the ES games...which means I still liked it pretty well. I really like the direction Skyrim seems to be going in in terms of freedom and character development...I actually like that there aren't "classes" per se, and that there are perks (I always compared perks similar to feats in D&D, and I love D&D and its feats) It just sounds like there will be lots and lots of character options.

And, although I'm not a "the graphics must be awesome or I'll hate it" gamer, Skyrim looks like it will just simply blow me away with the visuals. Dynamic snowfall and shadows? Heck yes!

And with mundane, everyday skills like cooking thrown in I'll love it even more...part of what drew me to RPGs like D&D is that they came as close as possible to representing the real world in a fantasy setting (which I know seems paradoxical....if you love the real world so much, why do I want to play fantasy games?)

Although I don't necessarily like it, I can get over the fast travel IF there was some price attached to it...like you select a place to go and it says you'd need to pay this much gold to travel there, or something.

But until it comes out and I see the whole storyline for myself, it's hard to put a personal judgment on the matter. For me, storyline trumps all. If a game has an amazing story and everything technological about it is svcky or outdated, I'll still enjoy it to a certain level. But if the story is canned, uninspired or boring, no amount of technological pizzazz will increase my enjoyment of it very much.

Sounds like I need to clarify.

The poll does not say "I hate" it says "I hate ON"

As in, to complain about. If you loved Oblivion, but loved Morrowind more, then at some point you "hated on" Oblivion.

You can't really go by the sales numbers for that, though. Because all those people who were underwhelmed with it could only really be underwhelmed after purchasing it.
Just because they bought it, doesn't mean they preferred it to Morrowind or any other TES game, for that matter.

Do I need a reason? It's a matter of taste. My reasons may not be universal for anyone.

Daggerfall and Morrowind were both more complex, had more spells, more factions, less hand holding, they had politics, and they felt more rewarding.
Morrowind had a more unique game world than Oblivion, with more unique places to visit. Daggerfall did not have much detail in the game world, but compensates with it's incredibly huge size.

There was certain aspects with Oblivion that I did not like.

• Fast travel (I found Oblivion's fast travel less immersive than in previous TES...)
  
• Level scaling (...)
  
• Factions (too few, no conflics between them, no requirements...)
  
• Dungeons (not much variety, most dungeons looked the same)
  
• Quest marker (no searching for items or places anymore...)

...just to mention a few, there are more things I do not like about Oblivion.
Still, I do play Oblivion, I've put a lot of hours in it both vanilla, and modded Oblivion. There are mods that fix a lot of the things I dislike.

I don't want to start some kind of war here... I accept that you like Oblivion, just accept that I don't like it as much as Daggerfall and Morrowind.
In the end it's a matter of taste. I like my games to have more content, more complexity, and less hand holding.

I'm on the edge of beating you with a spear, the problem is it isn't in the game anymore MWAHAHAHHA



Wrong. Morrowind was not more complex than Oblivion. If anything, Oblivion was more complex than Morrowind *cough* Lockpicking and speechcraft *cough*. Morrowind had more skills and more armor slots, not more complex, just more room for exploitation which is why spears and the extra armor slots were removed (spears were broken and the extra armor slots were exploited with enchanting.) I won't say that Oblivion was better than Morrowind as a game since that is an opinion, which I say Daggerfall>Oblivion>Morrowind. But don't go around saying how Morrowind was so much more complex than Oblivion when there is no basis of fact behind that statement.

I was disappointed with Oblivion, but I don't think I will be disappointed with Skyrim. I noticed that when reading the forums since announcement, simply put I seem to be expecting a lot less than other people. Most that didn't like OB think Skyrim will "right all the wrongs" or even go beyond that. I now believe I have a much better understanding of what the devs like about their games and what direction they would like to take (from everything Todd and Pete have said so far) and because of that I am not expecting them to suddenly go back to ideas they abandoned on purpose. I simply know that Skyrim is going to be a good game, although it probably won't be my favourite game of all time. :grad:

I think for me it will be like when Oblivion came out. Many things will become better, some bad things will be just as bad as before and some things will become worse than before. So overall I will probably like Skyrim more than Oblivion.

But while I think Bethesda is great at building large, nice looking worlds with lots of quests, NPCs and all that I always hate the gameplay mechanics they implement. To me most of it seems like they made a dice roll to decide what they will do instead of thinking about all possible consequences. Both MW and Oblivion were so full of exploits, useless skills, overpowered skills etc etc that I doubt Skyrim will be much different. I hope they will provide a Construction Set asap.

I stand corrected. Two points, however. Oblivion is a later game in a popular franchise. When comparing to movies, sequels tend to gross more at the box office than the original, even though most sequels are generally believed to be less good (unless they're straight to video) Oblivion had the advantage of more marketing and media coverage.

Secondly, the vocal population is important to a games success. It is the vocal population who spreads word of mouth. I have yet to see a comment section on an article for Skyrim where someone does not say "Excited but I hope it doesn't have such and such from Oblivion." Maybe not everyone takes time to make a comment, but they many read them.

"I'm on the edge of beating you with a spear, the problem is it isn't in the game anymore MWAHAHAHHA" -Sleign

Well no wonder Bethesda took them out, people have been using the dull end.