Morrowind had a similar relationship to Daggerfall, once.

Know what Daggerfall had that was real badass?

The options you had in setting up a custom class.
Sure, you can do that in MW and OB, but not to the extent you could in DF.
Magicka powered by light? That's just awesome. Also, lore-wise it makes sense.
Want to be a vampire hunter-type character? DF had that option.

I'd like to see something like that make a return, and who knows? Maybe some of these perks will emulate some of that.

Yeah. Daggerfall character creation had some awesome features.

Does anybody really care any more?

Clearly nothing can ever live up to the masterpiece that was Morrowind in your eyes so why bother trying? Everything Bethesda does you shoot down.

Ugh.

I joined this forum after Oblivion came out, but if I would have been here before then I would have said "Excited but I hope it doesn't have such and such from Morrowind." And Oblivion did make a lot of things better than Morrowind. Just like stated in my previous post, it also did some things worse. And some things were left the same.

But overall I like Oblivion more than Morrowind - with mods, that is. Without mods the idiotic level scaling would have killed the game for me and I wouldn't even think about it anymore. That is imo the one big point in Oblivion where Bethesda really screwed up - and that is also why the vanilla Oblivion game is probably worse than the vanilla Morrowind game. But the Oblivion level scaling is easy to fix with mods while some improvements from Oblivion simply can't be implemented into Morrowind.

it is a fact that Skyrim will be better than Oblivion, in every game bethesda improves in almost every aspect, even armor slots from Morrowind to oblivion, though there were less of them it was way easier to add new armor, some things may be a mistake if they try an idea that is just bad like Oblivion's level scaling. Although there are some ideas that people just dont agree on, like fast traveling vs. transportation system, I do think more people side (though not on this forums) with fast traveling, because it is quicker and mainstream.

[quote name='Phitt' timestamp='1294871937' post='16972917'
But overall I like Oblivion more than Morrowind - with mods, that is. Without mods the idiotic level scaling would have killed the game for me and I wouldn't even think about it anymore. That is imo the one big point in Oblivion where Bethesda really screwed up - and that is also why the vanilla Oblivion game is probably worse than the vanilla Morrowind game. But the Oblivion level scaling is easy to fix with mods while some improvements from Oblivion simply can't be implemented into Morrowind.
[/quote]

Level scaling was HUGE deal for me. Seeing glass and Elven fall from the sky after finding ONE guy in MW with full Dwarven and thinking "OMG OMG OMG" The fact that I played it on console made it even worse. And I would have bought it for PC just to play without that, but that's where the other, smaller issues I had made me decide to pick up Morrowind for PC instead. I'd like to see how many people used mods to tweak the level scaling. Mods are meant to add content, like quests, items, etc, not fix broken mechanics.

I use mods to fix what I perceive as broken mechanics all the time. Let's start with Morrowind and Oblivion's attribute multiplier leveling system. That was crap. I also got a multiple mark mod to make travelling a bit less tedious for me, in Morrowind. Then there was Oblivion's level-scaling.

OP, I see where you're coming from, but I agree that this thread isn't exactly necessary. The entirety of the Skyrim forums could be viewed loosely as an "Oblivion Haterz" environment - it's a common sentiment here.

That being said, I loved Oblivion and expect Skyrim to improve on its legacy.

I know you didn't meant to flame or anything.

But to answer your question, what I meant was: Is it really necessary to create a thread expressing any kind of hate and hostility towards Oblivion? Sure it was flawed, yes Morrowind "is" better. However, we all enjoyed it for what it was, we all played countless hours and had so much fun.
So now that Skyrim is nearing, it is looking so good in many ways. We should forget about Oblivion, it's flaws, and try to be a little opmistic. I have faith that Bethesda will provide us, once again, hours and hours of fun.

Plus it's no good for a developer's morale to see this "hate" on Oblivion.

And about the Clockwork Orange, as I grow older (Still 14, unfortunately) I keep getting interested in different stuff and trying to diverge myself from the "mainstream". So I started to listen to different songs, watching different movies, etc. And this grew on me, now I have this taste for arts that is very unique and different from the people I live with.
My dad recognized this change and recommended me to watch 2001 - A Space Oddisey, so I did, and I loved it so much! This got me interested in Stanley Kubrick's works, so I rented A Clockwork Orange and once again, fell in love with Kubrick's movies.
Now I plan to read the book if I do find it, though I am not one the kind of person that likes reading books. But I am trying to start reading.

I agree. I'm in a similar position, I'll never abandon Tes because the devs' vision (or the games market) do not fit my own vision of ideal RPG. I'll try to adapt to the series direction and now that I already had the Oblivion experience, I guess things will get easier in time. It's not just Tes, it's the new era of "progress" and globalization where everything needs to be simple to appeal to broader audiences. After Oblivion I don't think many of the old features could make their way back in the game. For example, finding a hidden location using your brains not a green arrow. This is not a time for reading books, testing your intuition, embracing trial and error, putting time and effort into solving puzzles. This is a time for "who has the biggest axe", "omg booom headshot lol", fast progression, fast rewards, as little reading as possible, hand holding and shiny little features. I don't blame anyone for that, it's just the time we live in. It's the economy, the culture, the demographics. I'm just glad I was contemporary to the golden era of Planescape Torment, Baldur's Gate, Gothic or Morrowind.


True. A lot of Oblivion's market success is due to Morrowind's quality and you can never do a sociologically acceptable research to see how many of the buyers did enjoy the product. The same will be with Skyrim, a lot of its success will be built on Oblivion's legacy.

There's no option for meh :/ .

I was impressed with some things, was unimpressed with others, and raged hard against some other things. Need more details before I either shift into either a neckbeard-style state of anger or uncautious optimism.

Here, everyone needs to cheer up.
Have http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g03zqvwN0no&feature=related

Oblivion may be more complex, but those minigames made security and speechcraft almost pointless, and picking locks and getting high disposition got a lot easier than before.

More room for exploitation, yes, but also a lot more room for customization. Instead of removing features they should have fixed them.

Fine, I realize you're right about the complexion. I won't repeat that mistake. :yes:

Of course level scaling was a huge deal. That's probably why the first mods that got rid of it came out a few weeks after release. In the Oblivion mods forum easily 90% of the people use a leveling overhaul to get rid of the scaling or make it more interesting.

I absolutely don't understand what you mean with 'Mods are meant to add content, like quests, items, etc, not fix broken mechanics'. Mods are mods. They modify the game, that's why they are called mods. Is there a law somewhere that says mods aren't allowed to fix broken game mechanics? I have a lot of mods that fix broken game mechanics (not only level scaling). Now I enjoy the game. Without these mods the game would be full of exploits and it would be boring due to the level scaling. What is wrong with that? What I don't like are horrible workarounds to implement things that were never meant to be implemented. But level scaling is a straight-forward game mechanic that works through level lists directly accessible in the CS. No hack required, just fixing the mess the Beth developers caused.

Oblivion is my least favorite (Arena I actually play pretty frequently just for the catchy music) but I think Skyrim will be the greatest. Everything about it just seems to have been done with great thought, and skillfully executed by Bethesda. The game's proving to be an amalgam of the greatest aspects of each game, the only thing that could possibly top it would be TES VI.

Ya know, its the same thing with me. Replace Morrowind with Daggerfall, and that describes how I feel to the T. Honestly, I loved Oblivion. I just complain about it a lot.

It's not the most accessible book, but if you can get into it, it's well worth it. It takes a while to get to understand the future slang words, but pretty cool IMO. You might want to get your hands on a list of the past Hugo and Nebula award winners if you are interested in good scifi stories.

I don't hate Oblivion but Morrowind is miles above it. I also loved fallout, I know those two don't have much in common but... I hope they learned things from those titles to make Skyrim a good game. At this point I can't make give any speculation since their isn't much info, gameplay videos or screenshots. With that said.. I don't think they'd be able to top Morrowind (in my view anyways) but we will have to find out another day.

I wanted to love it, and never did. It was just so bland, no matter how many mods I added they never fixed the boring setting or messed up voice acting.

I played Morrowind before Oblivion. Morrowind had story,atmosphere, and variety over Oblivion, but I think Oblivion has a much more refined system and is funner to play. Which is why I think Oblivion is a better game.


God, I'm so glad the fans don't design the games. It's called a sequel for a reason, it's suppose to be different! The TES games have all kept the same basic gameplay, but they change over time. The reason I hate the COD games is because they all play the same. Change is good.

More than the perks.
I think people who have critiques should be listened to as well.They're not trying to bully Bethesda,but for a good game it takes more than developer worshippers.(In theory sadly)
The removal of Crossbows and Spears was hugely welcome by the community when it was announced for Oblivion,and now everybody wants them back! If they did this after the announcement,maybe we could have had them in the game.
I won't be surprised if people want the removed skills/more skills for the next game.I won't be surprised if the seventh(yeah not the sixth) game becomes an above-average action game neither.

Turdlivion was a great leap forward for true RPG gamers for many reasons :

Less skills
Forced MQ
Fedex quests
Boring combat
Horrible AI
Linearity
Level scaling
Nonsense barriers like lockpicking/alteration at 100 that couldn't open all doors
Quest markers
Fast Travel
Traditional Beth writing
Craping on lore
Repetitive
Bad textures
Juvenile setting
No choices and no consequences

It also sell well and all important reviewers like Eurolamer gave it 120%

I am sure that Skyrim will follow the great tradition of dumping down TES games , first i couldn't believe that anything can be worst than Turdlivion but from what i read n TES 5 will set a new low . I think the RPG developers community need to take it's distance from abominations like Arcanum, Planescape Torment , Bloodlines and even Daggerfal . Everyone must have a chance to find the stupid cube , join all guilts with 1 character ; reviewers deserve to see everything inside the game in 2 hours and who cares about lore anyway?
I am very pleased to read that new skill system will include "perks" , who needs more skills ? perks is the [censored] !

I also welcome the idea of fellow gamers to introduce Bioware like romances , because advlt setting (as in The Witcher) can only be achieved via six , political and social topics are too hard for people unable to ask 3 NPCs and find uncle Caius .


*It isn't a big secret , Todd cannot into RPG , even Arena BSODed in his hands out of shame.

the fact is that there were many people who liked Morrowind more than Oblivion (not meaning they didn't like Oblivion)

Tell that to 80% of people who watched Godfather 3.