I call them "Banana Elves."

According to UESP Wiki, Oblivion Khajiit are Ohmes-raht and Morrowind Khajiit are Suthay-raht.

Probably.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Khajiit

I'm clawing my face in disgust. I'VE ALREADY POSTED PICTURES OF WHAT OHMES-RAHT KHAJIIT LOOK LIKE! THEY LOOK LIKE HUMANS WITH LIGHT TAN FUR ON THEIR CHEST, LEGS, AND ARMS AND THEY HAVE A TAIL! I need to stop drinking coffee and smoking late at night.

Off-topic posts will be deleted. The subject is Khajiit, not the accuracy of the UESP, and not a pretext for belittling people who cite the UESP.

Yeah, that's what I said. Someone needs to change that then.

Easy Hellmouth, some people just don't read the whole thread.

They should though. Especially when citing the same source that has just been debunked.

So to get this straight:

Ohmes: Arena (Not cat)
Ohmes-rah: Daggerfall (Cat hair, Cat tail)

Suthay-raht: Redgaurd, Morrowind, Oblivion (Cat head, Cat hair, Cat tail and Cat legs depending on the game)

They haven't got "Cat Legs" in Oblivion, and it is difficult to judge shape of they legs in Redguard by single 3d Model. Shape of their heads in Morrowind and Oblivion also differs.

So:
Daggerfall - Cat hair, Cat tail, Human head, Human legs - Ohmes-raht.
Morrowind - Cat hair, Cat tail, Cat head, Cat legs - Suthay-raht
Oblivion - Cat hair, Cat tail, Cat head, Human legs - they differ from Morrowind Khajiits as mush, as from Daggerfall Khajiits...

I'm think they are either Suthay or Cathay.

Suthay may be somewhat of transitional form from Ohmes-raht to Suthay-raht in appiarance, and Oblivion Khajiits are seems very similar to such form to me. But Suthay are smaller than Suthay-raht, and Oblivion Khajiits are same height as Morrowind Khajiits (and Morrowind Khajiits seem even smaller becouse they bend their legs).

And for Cathay, we know that Cathay-raht are often described as "jaguar-men". And despite that Khajiits' fur pattern more "leopardish" than "jaguarish", thay are however spotted and not striped like Morrowind Khajiits. And as I say, thay appear to be slightly larger than Khajiits in Oblivion, this also matchs Cathay description. And one more thing: Cathay and Cathay-raht are frequently appears in books - may be because people of Tamriel are familiar with this sub-breed...

S'Rathra, I don't know what to make of him as the model is so low-poly. He just looks huggable - not a feline human, or a humanoid feline, but an actual, cuddly, low-poly cat. :wub:

Ohmes: This form is similar in appearance to the Bosmer, sometimes shorter. Many Ohmes tattoo their faces.
Ohmes-raht: Similar in size and shape to humans, but with light fur and a tail.
Suthay-raht: Walk upright but are more cat-like than Ohmes-raht.

After you already have the tail and the fur, it's the heads what matters. The legs don't matter so much. The difference between the heads in Morrowind, Redgaurd and Oblivion is small. These are all cat-heads, where as Daggerfall gives them human heads. They're not smaller in any of the games and they're not Jaguar man either.

As much as they do differ, they're still the same breed. Chalk it up to artistic difference in style.



Doesn't matter really. It's in his http://www.imperial-library.info/intros/rg_chars.shtml.

Why? Only because there nothing about their manner of walking in descriptions?

Not so small: http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3226/khajikhaji.jpg
Thay have almost human-heads in Oblivion.

This is even more boring than game mechanics.

I wish they could bring back the Ohmes race alongside the Suthay race in the next game.

That is not even close to the OB heads. Their heads in OB is pretty much a cat. Here's a better picture than the head you linked there http://media.photobucket.com/image/khajiit%20oblivion/oblivionlp/khajiit.jpg

:). After all, they are suitable for close helmets, isn't it?

And there is one more thing. We know, that most of Khajiits in Morrowind are Suthay-raht, most likely because Dunmers consider them as better slaves. But AFAIK there is no such information about Cyrodiil (am I wrong?). Rather, majority of Khajiits there must be Ohmes-raht, but there also must be Ohmes, Suthay, Suthay-raht, Cathay, Cathay-raht in large amounts; sometimes, I think, there even can be Alfiq or Senche - because this is Cyrodiil, centre of Empire. So there is no reason why Khajiits of Cyrodiil must be represented as Suthay-raht.

Maybe Oblivion Khajiit don't belong to any specified breed, but are generalized image of all khajiits in Cyrodiil.
But this is also boring to me. I prefer to have lore explanations if game mechanics when it is possible (after all, they even gave such explanation to the fact that there is no levitation in Oblivion!), and Lunar Lattice was invented long ago to explain variety of Khajiiti appearance in games.

Can't be the ohmes, they look too much like bosmer and humans. And while yes Cyrodiil is the center and all that jazz, the humanoids much definately prefer the ohmes, due to their more humanoid appearance, it has been written down. The Cathay breed, from what I gather, are stronger, bigger, and taller than Suthay-Rahts, the Cathay-raht version being more stronger and taller than the normal Cathay. Plus, the Cathays are described as being jaguar-men, and we have yet to see a breed of khajiit with jaguar fur patterns.

So, in the end, the ones in Oblivion are the Suthay-rahts, whether you like it or not. And if this discussion is boring you then stop bothering to comment, or you don't like that the MW and OB breeds are the same (with artistic differences), pretend in your own game that they're not.

They are not Ohmes, of course. But their must be Ohmes.

Yes, yes. And in Oblivion Khajiits seem bigger and taller, because they don't bend.

Oblivion Khajiits have spotted fur pattern. Jaguars have spotted fur pattern. This may be enough.

:). I just don't like ignoring the obvious.

There should. A bunch of members would have preferred that the Ohmes were the khajiit in OB. However, they're not.


They're actually roughly the same height. http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/9435/screenshot0uf.png, http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/8471/screenshot1vmz.png. As you can see, they're slightly shorter than imperials, the both of them. And don't look too deep in the OB khajiit, in my game they've been retextured. The khajiit below haven't.


They don't. http://www.edu.pe.ca/southernkings/Pictures/jaguar.gif, http://wzus1.ask.com/r?t=a&d=us&s=a&c=p&ti=1&ai=30751&l=dir&o=0&sv=0a5c425f&ip=180ce3be&u=http%3A%2F%2Fnewsimg.bbc.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F40029000%2Fjpg%2F_40029300_jaguarx_wwf_203.jpg, http://www.northrup.org/Photos/jaguar/low/jaguar2.jpg. For khajiit in oblivion, http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/oblivion/images/3/36/LightRaimentofValorM.jpg, http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/oblivion/images/thumb/c/c3/M%27aiq_the_Liar.jpg/250px-M%27aiq_the_Liar.jpg, http://notmydesk.com/npc/holdup.jpg, http://chorrol.com/files/88/obx24B.jpg, http://www.yamama.co.nz/images/shivering/shivering3.jpg, http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j265/trollf/Oblivion/Characters/trfob-racekhajiit.jpg.

Yes, Khajiits in Oblivion not represented by Ohmes. Nor by Suthay-raht, .

Yes! This is what I'm wont to say: look on Morrowind Khajiit: his shoulders are lowered, his knees are bent, and becouse of this he seems to be shorter and weaker, wile actually his height is the same as imperial.

Of course they don't ...when they wear robe or body armor.
Havn't you seen spotted fur on their back, legs and arms?

Ok. Maybe it is I who ignoring the obvious. Cay you say, why you are sure that Morrowind and Oblivion Khajiit are the same breed?

You don't have to argue they're different. Anybody can see that.

We have sixteen pigeon holes and they have to fit into one of those descriptions. Ohmes, Cathay and Suthay are the ones of normal human proportions that walk up straight.
The Khajiit in Oblivion are not human enough to be Ohmes and not jaguar enough to be Cathay. They're also the same size as an Imperial, not smaller, leaving the Suthay-rath.

I'd like to see those spots you're talking about though. I didn't see them on my own character but my graphics card chokes on high detail detail and I couldn't see them on any screens either.

I throw in my usual two cents:

The only two possible breeds are the Suthay and Suthay-raht (note: It's -raht, not -rath. Made the mistake myself often enough ). The Ohmes are much more human like (Ohmes look like Bosmer, Ohmes-raht like lightly furred Bosmer with a tail). Cathay(-raht) are not only described as "jaguar people", but also as considerable larger and stronger than Suthay-raht. We "see" a Cathay-raht variant in the novel "A Dance in the Fire" - there they're mistaken for werewolves from a short distant. Doubt you could say the same about Oblivion's Khajiit.

Now if you look at the Khajiiti forms, there are some "rules" you can see:
1. For feline forms, the -raht variant is considerable bigger.
2. For humanoid forms, the -raht form is a bit bigger, but mostly more cat like.
3. Going with the lunar phases, the feline forms get smaller.
4. Going with the lunar phases, the humanoid forms get more beast like.

Now #1 and #3 can be ignored. #2 and #4 also make it more likely that it can only be the Suthay or Suthay-raht. Now which of them, I doubt we will ever know for sure. Lest a dev says it's this or that form.

I think, following the above, that it's the Suthay, not the Suthay-raht. Oblivion's Khajiit are less beast like than Morrowinds, which would be in tune with the above rules - it's not so much the actual size difference separating the Suthay and Suthay-raht (Oblivion's Khajiit are a little bit smaller, if Morrowind's could stand in the same way - which they cannot, and therefore only appear to be the same height), but it's more about how cat like the individuals are. And both mentally and physically Oblivion's Khajiit are less cat like than Morrowind's. Therefore I have a tendency towards Suthay.

Of course it could also be Suthay-raht, due to dev lazyness, which would be a likely explanation, too. But that would be boring .

I barely dare to say so, but how good they're visible depends a lot on mods. The character textures used in Oblivion are quite bad and low res, and even on "high detail" a lot gets lost. Therefore http://www.tikanderoga.net/bg2408/pics/tes/oblivion_malekhajiitupperbodytexture.jpg. As you can hopefully see, there are spots on the back. However seeing them in game without mods, uh, I don't even want to test it. In game it's, if I recall correctly, just a blurry mush. Unless you use high res textures .

Yes, it's bad ingame, but spots are quite visible:
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7421/screenshot167d.jpg

BTW, great post, bg2408, though I can't complelty agree with you and reject Cathay (not Cathay-raht!) as possible representers of Oblivion Khajiiti breed, .

Interesting, never did see those! They're not exactly Jaguar spots but spots none the less.

Comes to mind though we didn't read the description of Cathay right.



They're not just Jaguar-men. They're also larger and stronger then Suthay-raht. Which the ones in Oblivion are not. (I'm still discounting the legs, them being so due to gameplay.)

And in Morrowind in-game description.

Yes... But they can't be very much larger, or they wouldn't be able to travel through the trees as easy, as it is described in Dance in Fire.