Ok, before I'm flamed for this, let me explain my motive.

So, I discovered Oblivion, and fell in love. I got bored after a year of endless hours of play... then shortly found The Nexus. I fell in love again, but found myself spending more time modding, than playing. Adding this, then that... well then it didn't work, had to get a patch... then just one more little tweak... then wow, overhaul mods? have to try them, re-install! After literally half a year of this, I realized I'd not actually played much of the mods themselves. Modding was just too tempting to let gaming get in the way. I decided to try to settle for a good couple of weeks at least on a single setup- I chose COBL FCOM, with DR and a few smaller mods sprinkled on top.



I played for a good while, and really enjoyed the freedom and the expanse that modding brought to the oblivion world. These guys had realized something beyond the scope of the developers vision, heck, rewritten the developers vision; half the joy was the awesomeness of what I was playing, half the joy was being in awe at the talent of all these amazing guys... but something about the "Moddiness" of it all bugged me.
All the menus, all the stuff that didn't quite fit in, particularly in smaller mods... hourglasses that opened up configuration menus and features that seemed to just pop into existence without explanation. Things from separate mods having such a different... feel to them, it was less like being in the beautiful world of oblivion and more like being dragged from one beautiful vision to the next far too quickly, and it all felt somewhat jagged and rough.... and game play features like DR and Curse of Hicrene that just should have been included from the start still had this feel to them, of being less of a born in feature, more something that felt out of place... still awesome, but somehow putting all these awesome things together turned out less than the sum of their parts.

After playing the whole experience, from the vanilla game to the mad rush of experimental rush and that spot in between, I had this thought that I knew was pretty unreasonable, to create something.. more whole. It started with this thought, that was to edit the script of DR so that my favorite settings were defaulted and that the menu never appeared, so that the hourglass wasn't needed and It would be like the feature was always there... then for one of my favorite mods, "28 days and a bit" I thought, what if Instead of having a random spell that lets you bring on fully customizable and epic zombie invasion, there was instead just a mysterious note on a table somewhere, and if you followed the short quest, you found a ritual you performed to bring up the zombie invasion menu? It would stop feeling like a bonus and more like a feature, throw in some lore, relate it to necromancers... And there are so many quest mods that, with just a bit of voice acting, would feel part of the game as if they were always there... I work with, and am friends with a cast of actors, It wouldn't be a problem to get some guys round to provide that. The mods are still epic in their own right, but with some good voice acting to do their lines justice, they would genuinely become something to rival the main quest. And all the fantastic but tiny game play tweaks and changes I couldn't live without! Magicka overhauls. Graphical mods. Share and Recruit. Alt Start Arrive by Ship. Or just things like the Uncapper mod, or Hotkeys Enchanced...





But then it kind of dawned on me, after doing all this work, tweaking load orders, editing scripts, adding quests and voice acting, it would be pretty pointless to just then play it, I'd allready know all the changes. I have a fair few freinds who go wide eyed in wonder when I describe to them the brilliance of Oblivion mods, and I can always beat their Oblivion stories (yes, Oblivion story telling is about as common as ghost story telling with a fair few of my friends!) with my epic battles between my gang of vampires, a werewolf and a city full of zombies... but even creating this... Oblivion Mark Two for 4 or 5 people I know would be a bit small scale for all these big Ideas I was suddenly having.

So then I thought, what about making it more of a community thing? see if anyone else is interested, or has tried this before? And after ages of tossing it over in my mind, I figured I'd mention it.
My Idea is, to clarify, one pretty huge (actual game sized, so torrent download or similar) epic mod, that seamlessly (so no conflicts or loose ends!) blends together the best and most innovative mods into one package, edited to FEEL like a game. So if someone who had never played oblivion picked it up, they wouldn't be like "whats this, whats that, whats with the hourglass, WHAT?", so it actually felt as close to a real game as it could get. Once installed, you could play through and there would be hardly any, if any at all inventory cluttering Items to edit settings, no immersion breaking bugs and misplaced things....




I know this is, currently, a flawed vision. Firstly, the talented modders that created all these wonderful mods themselves: what if they don't agree with this? what if they make a major update to their mod after I've worked it into a package? To be honest, Its just a risky move in the modding world in general. The glory of mods is the freedom each modder has on his or her creation, the individualism found browsing the nexus, and the sheer joy of course of rooting out a gem you've never found before, just a small mod that when you found it you think "Why was this not in the game in the first place??". And what of Customization? Surely all the effort put into giving mods the personalization they have shouldn't be wasted on locking the settings just for the sake of immersion. However, looking at OOO, I realized what I'm suggesting is just the next step from what he did. Obviously, as an amazingly talented modder he pretty much re-wrote Cyrodill and produced an amazing amount of original content... but looking in the credits list he took a lot of things he thought were brilliant and included it in his one, massive download. Capes and Cloaks, Exnem Runeskulls, Havestable Containers etc etc... and there are non-immersion breaking ways to change settings... like ini. files, and splitting the mods into separate Esm. files like with most overhauls.

Basically, I want to know what people think of this as an idea. I don't want to spend time and effort on something that will be despised; I don't want to lock away and let wither something that could have flourished. I don't want to aim too high and end up giving up, but I don't want to aim too low and let the opportunity pass. And of course, I wouldn't release ANYTHING without permission, so this is a good enough place to start for that sort of thing too... there are so many mods that I would want to include, there's a good chance 1 in 10 people reading this have made one of them....





I hope you all, at the very least, take me seriously: I may be new to scripting, to editing, maybe in the grand scheme of things even modding, but that doesn't make me a noob. I think you know what I mean...

peace,


Mysterious Mr. Bear
XD

Well first off, welcome to the forums, and thats a hell of a first post.

But trust me, I think everyone here can relate to every bit of that. I know that on my most recent return to playing Oblivion a few months ago, I've spent more than half that time patching and tweaking and installing. And even after all that, they still feel so out of place. Awesome, but just out of place at the same time. I think this is a great idea and its definitely possible (although you would have to get permission for every mod you use, which may be a task, as I know some authors aren't big fans of these types of things.)

Not to mention people have tried this before. Although it wasn't much of a "community" thing. There's things like FCOM, which in a similar way, try to bring together most of the major overhauls. However, I see what you're thinking of doing is a little bigger than that. Plus if you go to a torrent site and search "FCOM", I guarantee you'll find some FCOM.omod's with multiple other mods. Thats how I got my first FCOM install, and included were several other mods.

I think the easiest way to do this (hell, it'd still be hard though), would be to package them all into an OMOD, with an install script allowing you to choose which ones you wanted and the options you wanted for each one. However, you or a team of people would have to go through all the mods before packaging them and edit them to make them all seem more "like they were already part of the game" as you were saying.

Also, I think you came in at a pretty good time considering there are some pretty big releases in the works (Unnecessary Violence II, Deadly Reflex 6, and Unholy Darkness, to name just a few of my favorites).


I think this is a great, although ambitious, project and its certainly possible if you can put in the time. Just keep in mind that some people's tastes are different than your own so not everyone may agree. I'm not a huge modder, but I have a basic understanding of scripting and the Construction Set, so if you ever need some people to help with this project, feel free to contact me here sometime.

Cheers!

Welcome to this forum. :wave:


I understand what you talk about the playing, but it doesn't mean I agree with you in all your aspects.

In comparison to you I know nothing about scripting or modding. I envy you that's for sure.

Thank you for the very warm weclome, captain cannible
Indeed, timing is quite good... late enough to have lots of excellent mods, early enough to still have the momentum (that I think will still be there years in advance with some of us!) And all of the mods you mentioned I have had my eye on, particually unholy darkness. Unnessersry violence 1 scared me off a bit, seemed very.. awkward, but very ambitious and FULL of potential, I will take a look at two. DR6 goes without saying, been hanging on to that one for a whilllle now....

Permissions is something I'm wary of. I've lurked for a while, picked up some tension here and there with some people... hopefully though, most people will like the idea, but so long as nothing major is dropped... it would be a bit hypocritacle of someone like FCOM to say their against the concept, eh? :lmao:
I know what you mean about differnt opinions, another thing I'm wary of is not making it "BEARS OBLIVION FOR HIM". I'm looking to include mods that are recognized as essential, and ground breaking, and also ones I found innovative. The omod idea is a very good one... do you think it could work with an executable? I don't know why I'm leaning towards executables more than omods, I have no experience with making either. (at least not with dialog on options). But I'm getting ahead of myself, baby steps, baby steps now....
Leonardo, thank you for the welcome Haha I'm afraid I know nothing of scripts and not an awful lot of modding. What I have is a willingness to learn however... I'm good at picking things up. I also have time on my hands on the minuet... It sounds cheesy and optamistic but with time and willinngness I think I can teach myself. And with Cannables generous offer, I feel more confident
The way I see it, I have the voice acting, I have the ideas, enough knowlage of mods and how they work, and time and energy. Scripting, the CS and permissions is what I need to get before I can get things rolling properly... challenging for sure, but hey, it would be no fun otherwise!
Currently I'm halfway through a mind map of all the mods I want to include, its getting pretty big. Once thats done (and perhaps after a reboot of my computer, for good measure?) I'll start on a working load order, whilst contacting people for permissions... hopefully If I keep this thread updated, more people will take an interest and it will gain some momentum...

The feelings of the modding community about compilations are pretty well known and not generally positive. We do understand it from a mod user's point of view. Sure on click to install and perfect integration would be lovely, but it's really not practicable - and its highly problematical from our side. You actually highlighted the biggest issue (at least for me) yourself when you mentioned updates. Once you change a mod to make it fit with "your" ideal mod pack, the modder no longer has control over his creation - that is he can no longer update it (or he can but anybody using your pack won't get the benefit).

But here's the thing. You can create most of what you're talking about without having to edit or distribute the mods yourself. Instead you can create a series of patches which make mods conform to your vision - then with the modder's permission (and I can't express enough how important that is) you can distribute those patches to support better mod integration, on the assumption that if a mod gets updated you will also have to update your patches. You can still create your vision of a "perfect game" without actually treading on anybody's toes.

I can guarantee that you will never get permission from most modders to distribute their work. Let me include right now that I do not give my permission to distribute or edit UVII when it is released in this manner. I do however give you (and anybody else who wants it) permission to create separate patches that interact with UVII as long as they don't break the functionality and as long as I am notified.

This is true, compilations always kind of bothered me when I see them posted here, but I feel he's going in a little bit of a different direction. And yes updates are always an issue, but I mean look at the Unique Landscapes Compilation OMOD, thats always kept fairly up to date and its not maintained by the Unique Landscapes team.

As for the patches, I suppose something like a compilation of "realism patches" would be interesting. You could very well try that first and then see how you feel about creating this compilation, as it is a highly ambitious project as I said.

Ah, I completly understand. I guess the thought about "patches" that scared me off was a four letter word starting with F and ending with COM. That thing was vicious. Especially if the patches are tying together giants like FCOM, Better Cities and numerous other mods, all of which are a headache in their own right.... doing patches would pretty much flip things from being a "for dummies" mod to a "for masochists" mod. The solution that seems most reasonable to me now is to, at home, create this massive Load Order thats full of the Overhauls, the innotive mods, and all the other things I think are worth checking out in oblivion, then divide them into stand alone patches that when put together, create the experience I'm hoping to achieve. There for, each patch (FCOM patch, Locations Patch, Quests Patch, Features Patch etc) would work by itself (providing you have the required mods installed) and putting it together is more like a treasure hunt. After all, I didn't aim to force load orders on people, I aimed to Improve the things I loved about the game to something even better....

Thank you for that Post, Hex. I understand (or Imagine) we share opposite views as to the mods we are creating: I remember liking UV espeicially because it touched nothing else, and there for imposed nothing on the player.... whilst I am aiming more for a... unification of other things, perhaps? Your post highlighted the blaringly obvious I guess... and not treading on anyones toes is what I'm aiming for anyway.

XD

You shouldn't be afraid of patches as that's exactly what you are proposing to do (and by your own account have been doing). All you have to do is save the changes as a separate (and dependant) esp instead of actually saving over the mod's main esp.

As for making it a masochist's nightmare (dream?) - it doesn't have to be that bad. Creative scripting of OBMM could give you a single click install that detects what mods you have and installs the relevant patches. I believe that the FCOM OBMM installer that TheNiceOne (apologies in advance if I've misremembered the author) created does something along those lines.

You are not going to be able to circumvent the issue of users having to DL and install the mods they want to use - at least not without seriously annoying the modders, but you may be in a position to improve the way those mods interact with each other if that's a project you feel like undertaking.

I'll admit, I'm warming up the the idea now, having took a look around the internet as to how the CS works... god I jumped in over my head!! Ah well, guess its a good way to learn how to swim if you don't drown...

CaptainCannabal, the Realisim Patch would be a good place to start, now you mention it. A really good place to start. With almost everything else, one thing Is relient on the other in some way... quests relying on or effecting spawns and load orders provided by overhauls... but realisem seems like a pretty clean cut when it comes to other mods. Only thing I can think of is A relience on COBL for the COBL usable drinking well used in the thirst mod... and maybe leveled lists for things like tents or even bandages... and then the next patch could be perhaps for locations, which I could link to my realisem mod by just putting COBL wells into villages and the like.

This has me thinking now about which angle to take on it... whether to build this massive load order FIRST then realese things patch by patch.... or build the load order then release one massive patch (not sure how that would even work at the minute) or wether to start to load order with realisem, then build my load order WITH the patches...

I'm going to walk the dog and think about all this, hopefully I will have at least thought of every problem these options present by the time I get back.
The injection of Realisem to this Fantasy I've had has made me all the more motivated.

I guess we are sitting in the same boat you and me for our lack of modding knowledge, but hey your point of how to learn your self is a great personal asset at least I've plenty of stubbornness left in me.

Personally, I think it's much better if you play for a while with the mods at your own criteria, because you will find a possible issue or a way to improve a mod. The best example I can give you right now is the new version of http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1101547-relzcompanion-vilja-ver-21-thread-no-2/ by Emma, because there was a modder who get fond of Vilja and start to improve the scripts among other things and later on the modder simply tell Emma about the improvements.

That's what I call to respect an author intentions in the first place.

I don't want to come off too blunt, but what you are proposing here is a lot like jumping out of a plane without first learning where the rip cord is on your parachute.

There are some very crucial points to consider before you commit yourself to this task. And it will be a daunting task, indeed. If you think maintaining a working load order robs you of your play time, just wait until you get the CS up and running!!!

First, no two player's mod lists are the same. FCOM (for example) demands a strict load order to work. If you unleash your "ideal" mod list upon the scene, you'll need to make sure everyone who installs it arranges their mod list to conform to yours.

Next, What you envision as "the perfect game" isn't what anyone else will envision. Look at it from an outside-in perspective. Do you honestly think someone else could put together the perfect load order for YOU? Modding is a personal thing. We don't go through the stress and frustration of building a load order to please anyone but ourselves. Then, to jump up and claim you have devised "the perfect game" for everyone else is more than slightly conceited.

Finally, if your goal here is to give yourself more time to play, this thing is gonna bite your butt, big time. Releasing something like this is going to require a major commitment on your part. You'll not only need to get this thing so that it works, but you'll need to follow the progress of each mod you include in your compilation so that you can update your stuff every time one of the included mods are updated. Don't forget about giving support, too. You'll spend about as much time fielding bug reports and tech issues as you will working on the mod it's self. Pretty much, the only play time you will get is going to be playtesting your work, and debugging other users' issues.

Don't get me wrong. I don't want to snuff your ambition. All I'm saying is, you need to think about this.

Get your feet wet first. Take baby steps, and all that happy crap. Think of something you want to add to your game that hasn't already been done, and make it so. Spend some time in the shallow end of the pool before you go and try to do a swan dive off the high board.

Commendable respect indeed Leonardo... I think though he holds a different intention to me. Where he (or she!) aimed to improve and refine, I hope to to improve and modify. Well, modify sound too strong. I don't want to change the purpose or method... just the execution. If I edit a mod that adds zombies and lets you create an invasion through a menu, it will still be a mod that adds zombies and lets you create an invasion through a menu. But instead of that menu being activated via spell given to you upon activation, I would have perhaps a menu that is activated after a decent quest... maybe by talking to a necromancer.
I hold in mind what you said though about playing with the mods at my own leasure before making any decision... through enjoying various mods I have seen ways in which it could be improved (normally the kind of "universal" improvement that no one could really dislike, for example bug removal or voiceovers, but somestimes personal improvements that some might dissagree with like talking one subplot a bit further, or deveolping one character more). The trouble will be figuring how to make the improvments!

haha, just read your message Ssenkrad, don't worry: You can never be too blunt with a fool like me!! XD

I do think you have the wrong Idea though... maybe I have worded things wrong, said things wrong, or maybe I've just changed my opinion since writing the oppening paragraph. To clarify, what I plan is not a "perfect load order", I'm smart enough to know no one will want the same. What I suggest is... a base, perhaps, was my original idea. Oblivion, with a shade of Mysterious Mr. Bear I guess- like FCOM for example tottaly mixes things up, changes the whole game, but it's not concited of the creators of Oscurio, Martigen, Fran and co to make these changes... nor of Devnul (I think thats who set up FCOM, I'm sorry to say I'm not sure) for binding these together and calling it a good place to start. My idea is... FCOM, but BIGGER!
FCOM, but with more changes... sutble changes. Additions, not changes. Maybe someone really isn't bothered about werewolves in their game... so I add werewolves to be part of a Patch, that person does not have to become one or anything. Many people probably aren't bothered about capes and clokes in their game... OOO still went down a storm despite them becoming part of the loot lists. You see what I mean? I don't want to pull a hitler and try and tell everyone about my perfect masterrace load order... but create a new FCOM, a new starting point... just with so many letters that an abbreviation would be ridiculous. The only thing that would be dissagreeable that I can see is my attempts to remove the "moddiness" of it all... but even if I change it so that instead of an essential item you have a Room in the testinghall, or even relying on ini. settings... is that concited, or is that something alot of people would want?
I am heeding yours and Hex's advice to start small though. In a way I always was, its just you wouldn't see the result until the small changes became big ones... I realise thats too bigger a goal to achive more than the largest mod known with no experience. But hey, big projects and long term goals is how I've finished things I previously thought impossible before.. maybe goals will change but I still want this to happen. Piece by piece, patch after patch, I hope to link together all the mods I think that will give the best and most expansive and varied experience... to the end goal of a bugless, stylishly executed version of oblivion to play, to build on, and be indeed Modded.

My SHORTTERM plan is to create a basic quest from start to end, with scripts, AI, exteriors and interiors and voiceovers to cover the things I'll need to know about CS. Nothing Fancy, just the bones of EVERYTHING I could need to know (please slap me in the face and tell me theres far more I need to know if there is far more I need to know, thats just all Im aware of) and upload it somewhere, and then start work on a Realisem Patch, blending the most popular and all-covering realisem mods and editing them to fit my "Game, not mod" ideal. hopefully these two projects will take.. I'll give them two weeks with nothing else going on in my life? tell me if thats unreasonable by the way, just a guestimate....hopefully within these two weeks I will have the bones of what I need, and from it I can peice together a skeleton of what I want to see... and from that the flesh out monester I hope to create :drool:
And time to play is not something I'm that concerned with, big projects will keep me happily occupied until finished or dead. (I don't intend to let it die however, not unless theres some rediculous difficulty I must face no one has mentioned yet)

I'm going to post this and if its totally differnt to my orignal post, I'm going to edit in an oppolgy for that. I'm still open to everything, and so what I want to do is changing... hope I have caused no offence, its not what I came to do

XD

My god I dont think I've ever seen so many words in one place.

edit: wrong topic -_-

There is always addons for a specific mod that you can use. Download the mods addons or ask a permission if that's necessary to make an addon on your own and release it, but only if the original author has approved that release.
After all he or she has created the original mod in the first place.

Some of them has stated "do what ever you want" or "not to redistribute this mod elsewhere" and that must be respected. :nod:

Just keep this in mind that most modders have only one thing they wish for you to respect, that you credit them in your own addon / mod if you're using any owned mod asset, because without them there is not gonna be any mods for the rest of us to use.

First, I haven't read the entire thread. Second, I'll tell you why. A couple of times a month a new member pops up with a often wordy and always extremely ambitious proposed project. As a rule, he or she has never released a mod for Oblivion before. Also, as a rule, he or she is very active answering questions and/or outlining the vision for a couple of hours or days. BUT - I don't think I've ever seen even a single one of these threads actually resulting in anything at all. So color me a bit skeptical. That said, I'd love to see my prejudices proved wrong, but I think Ssenkrad summed it up well - start small.

Yeah I know, I've seen them too, maybe I'll be one maybe I won't...

have put the mindmap of mods on my list to rest for now and have started with the little baby mod to "get my feet wet". will post result when finished... Shall be enough to unskepticalise you a bit perhaps

*Slap* There's far more you need to know. Go find the simplest, shortest quest mod out there - one that doesn't include voicework and only uses vanilla assets - and ask how long it took.


Maybe the walls of text above have insulated you from the replies you would've gotten otherwise. The modders here will be hopping mad at any attempt to repackage, alter, combine, etc., other people's work. Apart from the personal insult involved, one of the biggest sticking points is that the mod's author would now have additional versions out there that they cannot support, because they did not create them. Basically you would create a development branch, and that's a headache nobody wants.

More bluntly - you will seriously tick off most of the people here.


Forget it. Unless by "bones of what I need" you mean a long list of things you suddenly realize you didn't know.

gothemasticator

I opened this thread expecting to see a 'I'm going to make an awesome compilation of all the awesome mods' thread, but I see you are being a bit more nuanced than that. Nevertheless I think you may be heading in the wrong direction.

I fully agree that many mods, including some very popular ones, don't blend seamlessly in to the Oblivion world, but it might be worth spending a moment or two to consider why this is. It certainly isn't because modders want to make inferior mods, but there may be technical limitations, skill limitations, time limitations or an eventual lack of enthusiasm. Modders are amateurs working with limited time and, usually, no budget. Also making mods as perfect as possible is a huge task, look at Better Cities, Vorians and Ismelda have been picking away at this for years. FCOM is the complex mess it is because it's still a work in progress, even OOO is still being worked on. What I'm saying is that getting even one large scale mod to the professional level shown by the vanilla content is a huge task, attempting to do so for a range of mods is probably imposible.

I suggest you start small. Pick a mod that needs burnishing, and see how far you can take it, ideally find a mod that's been abandoned, where open permission has been granted. You could hone your skills improving and extended this one mod, then release. i'm sure there's plenty of candidates, especia;ly if you think you can get some voice actors together. One the springs to mind is Kvatch Rebuilt (although I don't know what permissions you would need).

A realisem PATCH, that does not effect the base files
It would still need all original mods installed... then ontop the patch that makes my changes, therfore nothing is repackaged nothing is changed, no versions to keep track of, and no insult- its someone creating something a bit differnt from your work, much like they created something a bit differnt from Bethesdas work. Is it a slap in the face to Bethesda when FCOM is released? or is that not in the spirit of modding... to...well, to mod things!
And yeah, I'm expected a wholeeee bucket load of problems, hoping for a internet packed with well hidden solutions, praying for an enjoyable challange (and no, I'm not like "I'M REALLY GOOD AT SODUKU IM READY FOR YOUR CS!" I'm like "I'm ready to learn something new!"

Ah. I misunderstood. I apologize.

gtm

not sure if thats genuine or if your just scared of another wall of text (which I promise I'll cut down on)


I think the scope of the work I had planned has got a bit out of hand, my original idea was more of a teather between all my favorite mods, and the occasional revamp, surely nothing as epic as I ended up blowing it out to be... ah well, we'll see what comes of this venture into the CS

Good to see someone new actually trying to learn the CS. I know most people here just come in with the whole "I don't know how to use the CS, someone else do this for me" thing.

Good luck! It's really not hard to learn basic CS skills. Scripting and all is getting fairly into it, but everyone has to start somewhere.

A breath of fresh air much needed there, Captain! :foodndrink:

sat with a basic guide to the CS trying some things out. Hoping to have completed something interesting (placed a house and decerated it? Added a patrol?) By the end of the night... not sure how many people are brits here, its currently four in the afternoon :D

haha, I came, I annonced some big master plan... maybe now you'll see how far I get with it!

Hey everyone, just letting you know I haven't dissapered...
I started by just opening the CS and figuring it out, and did fairly well, and starting making a house, linking the exterior to the internal cell ect but I've found a really good set of lessons that I'm going to follow before I go any further. I will create a topic here when I've made something worth showing, hopefully in a couple of weeks- I'm not aiming BIG, but something that will impress. Kind of realised I must have looked like a bit of a rushing fool in this first topic, hopefully I will be able to fix this by releasing something good enough to be redeeming.

Won't post here again to avoid spamming people and stupid bumps, so until later,
Mysterious Mr. Bear